Excessive late fee? (apartments, leasing, evicting, deposits)

[Contractor Duggy]

... OH, (POST SCRIPT) ...just because of the comments this will generate, yeah , I am a landlord. I Charge late fees. State law caps that at 30%. 10% is fair. I find that it is common after 30 years in business that the second and third months for new tenants are hard for them to budget for several reasons. 1. Relocation and moving expenses means added expense for getting around. 2. purchase for supplies: curtain rods, drawer linings, shower caddys, cleaning supplies, etc is a burden, and 3. Adjusting the entire budget to accommodate a difference in amount of rent payment is a tricky business for some. These are the most common reasons for those two months of a tenants entire rental history being the most difficult to manage. They are not "Excuses", they are reasons. (Reasons that generate late fees.) There was nothing mean spirited or malicious about the reasons. In 30 years there were only two cases that were ever a refusal to pay a late fee without reason. Those were "Excuses" and they were easily avoidable. Simply beacuse they had never been charged a late fee, they felt they were not required to start.
Chances are likely that the people who are renting do not have the required MBA or LL.M.to decipher the mess you call a lease. The fact that they get hit with a deposit on top of monthly rent makes it tuff the next month for the simple fact that it takes some longer than 30 days to recover from that. SO, a little understanding on our part solves the problem. (Catch it up and we are back in the black, no harm done.) Personally, It does me no good to tie up my time re-renting the place in a couple weeks to slam another deposit out of my next victim. I make more money contracting. Those of you with no life, thinking every renter is a low life should be ashamed of yourselves. My best tenants have all had minor issues with late rent. Late fees should be an annoyance to a tenant, not a reason for them to seek other living arrangements. Some of the horror stories my new tenants tell me, are reason enough to AVOID associating myself with local landlord associations and the like. Tenants can opt to ask around about you as well. Bad landlords get a reputation faster than a bad tenant. Check with the BBB. As for outrageous deposits and BS repairs..I'm a contractor. As a landlord, I AM my own client. What do you think I charge myself for caulking nail holes? reattaching a piece of trim? Biggest problem with this industry just about everywhere is you greedy SOB's that think your pot of gold has come in... renting property out is a liability. Cost is offset by income, but you are expecting to make enough profit to finance your house, your car, your boat and your kids education... ON TOP OF THE MORTGAGE ON THE RENTAL. You create landlord associations to find more ways to avoid paying your taxes on the business and nail anybody that threatens your tyrannical approach to contracting. You lobby for tax legislation because you are greedy, not because you care about your neighbors property value. As a "slumlord", You rent your dump to anyone you can burn for another double rent payment.
The solution for the greedy landlord is not to charge more for rent. The solution is to own more rentals that can be maintained at a reasonable rate. More rentals = more generated capital income. It also means more upkeep, but, you can do more in your own personal life if you are dedicating yourself to the guardianship of properties and rental units. IF all you want is a free ride because you own property and trapped some poor SOB into your little scam, I wish you'd get out of real estate because you give guys like me a bad name. THERE IS ONLY ONE SOLUTION FOR YOUR MEAN SPIRITED APPROACH TO TYRANNICAL BUSINESS PRACTICES. I'm here diggin for information on guys like you, pulling this crap on one of my tenants, building a case. We are pretty sure there will be a new precedent regarding imposed late fees for people on section 8. Stay tuned. (Funny how landlords avoid section 8? If they do it is because they are not willing to maintain rental units to code anyway) ..and yeah, I rented to them Steevo. Section 8 with a history of late fees doesn't make them Bonnie and Clyde. It makes them crippled and on a fixed income. Sorry bout your luck pal, they're off the market. (And occasionally, I dont charge a deposit. This was one of those occasions. I'm less likely to get burned if I dont start my tenants off with a debt they cant overcome for several weeks or rent to people who are not likely to stay. (BUT THEN THAT IS WHAT SETS US APART, HUH COLONEL..."I KEEP MINE" ...cause it certainly isn't wether or not you can get flamed for flaming a legitimate question that chaps your creamy white *ZZ ...My regards to Jaime Sommers)

[Contractor Duggy]

To me if I do not pay to the landlord on time I am being rude and inconsiderate with him/her.

This is exactly the mentality that is infesting the market and the industry. Why should I automatically assume my tenant is being rude or mean spirited? Where is this BS coming from in this industry? (Slum lords who rent to people who cannot pay, will not pay, or would pay if given half a chance but never get one)
Speeding ticket is a violation of law, for whatever reason, you don't do it because someone else caused you to. Late rent might be due to an employment issue or an illness whatever. Big difference here. I dont know why you would try to categorize the two in the same reference. Contracts are being designed to slam nickles n dimes out of every possible avenue of revenue for the slightest reason. "Breaks" are not even common practice anymore, yet you are dealing with a human being, not a corporate money machine. Your corporate approach to rental agreements , especially residential, is not only unjustified, it's unrealistic. It constitutes a gamble in favor of the house that the tenant is going to lose and, upon doing so, we should automatically assume the act malicious and demand maximum punitive and compensatory remediation. BULL. I aint buyin it for a second.

I have no consideration for people that complain because Blockbusters charges late fee charges or any other organization does the same.

..as I said, I charge late fees, but, if i were to have misplaced a zero or applied the fee to the wrong tenant, yes, I have consideration for the person making the complaint. Sounds to me like you dont like waiting in line for your turn at the wheels of American capitalism in a free or fair market. (How very un-democratic of you) Do the people not have avenue to resolve a grievance in your perfect world? Ever been late for a showing and lose the client? Kind of harsh for a few minutes don't ya think? or is it a double standard with that too? You can demand payment at high noon but when the gunfight turns to how fast you can get a pipe fixed, they get to wait to the maximum limit or letter of the law?

If I did not read a contract closely enough, did not scheduled payments to be on time, etc. and I end up late, I is my fault. That is what you call personnal responsibility.

...and it would be nice if reality worked according to schedule, which it doesn't. Reality is that noOne knows what is going to happen next and you are simply trying to contract punitively that, no matter what, you get yours on time, reality be damned. ...and THAT is bad business. Good business is a late fee that reflects actual compensatory measures to accommodate late payments on mortgages, interest rates, etc etc...and I have no problem with that. Late fees are a way of regulating that as well as abuse of the agreement. Yes. I do not dispute that at all. What I dispute, even as a owner, is that I am somehow compelled to immediately penalize the tenant to the maximum extent allowable or that if I exceed that amount I should not be questioned nor expect any complaint. Where are you guys getting this premise from? A late fee is not a new source of revenue my friend. it is a safety measure, and I dare say an extremely abused one. Everybody is NOT out to get you. Trust me.

When you are wrong, you are wrong. I ask people to not try to make the other guy as the bad guy.

...by this I have no idea to what you are referring, unless your implication is that I am wrong for making the "preceding flame job" understand he is not the prevailing word on the question posed. The question is legitimate and noOne implied anything about getting out of a late fee. To ask weather or not 10% is excessive is a legitimate question. In my humble opinion I believe 10% is not only reasonable, it should be more common. Problem is, 30% is more common and is USURY and ABUSE and any attitude that supports it should be opposed (Hence my remaining presence in defense of the notion that "to question" is in no way deserving of a flame job or victimization through false implication) ...so who is wrong and who is right? and who said anything about making the other guy the bad guy? Obviously,The bad guy must be the guy who asked the question and got flamed for it?

I actually think businesses and landlords do give breaks for the sake of good business.

...and you see nothing wrong with the idea that should be dismissed as totally irrelevant in a landlord/tenant relationship? Good grief man, he asked if 10% was excessive, obviously he doesn't know that is standard, not like he is abusing it, but at the same time you got a guy posting blue flame to smoke him before he even gets the answer. Steve basically told him to quit trying to get out of paying the bill you are wrong for even asking. Steve made only one point, that he is exactly the kind of mean spirited problem child that gives this industry a bad name.

In my opinion Steve made a good point. Even if a landlord is a greedy jerk, the bottom line it boils down to being punctual on your promise and word. To avoid this problems we should simply be organized, punctual, responsible, and there would not be any problems.

Not true. You dont eliminate the problems by being any of this. Punctual? Okay, I'll try to make sure the next person that dies in my family does so on time... responsible? you mean like, actually paying the bill if its late? or making sure it never is? How about a definition of responsibility that says hey, I will try to pay it on time by a certain date. If I dont make it by then, I understand there is a late charge. If that late charge is excessive, then we got a problem because I am responsible enough to make sure you dont make a mistake either. And...here's some mind blowing info for ya BOSS, United got nailed for 6 million plus over excessive late fees to customers.... SIX MILLION..... now, you wanna tell me about "Responsible"? Tenants have an obligation to pay on time, yes. They do NOT have the obligation to bend over whenever that doesn't happen. Late fee yes. Rape no. Get a job doing something besides robbing people and you would realize that life isn't a retirement plan on a fixed income where everything happens to keep you in depends, cause, God knows your as "regular as rent" and we dont wanna find out what happens when you aint.

-A voice of reality among the "Lords of Late Liberalist Libations"

PS. Any republican conservatives on here that think its better to charge a late fee that runs your tenants out than it is to add a late fee that annoys them but is doable? Dont know about you guys, but I kinda like "STAYING IN BUSINESS", as opposed to starting a new one explaining what
my sneaky lil late fee is saying happens to your property if you gotta go for surgery and get more than one month behind or get laid off and your kids are in the street in winter... wow
and I want 13 references , your credit card number, bank account number, last ten rental addresses, mothers maiden name, and locations of any property you own, License and VIN numbers for any vehicles you've owned, entire life long criminal background, sexual preference, religious and political affilliations....What next fellas ??? I call your wife and blackmail you if you dont pay on time? Why dont you guys just go into social work or something more tuned to your sadistic fettishes... I hear the mafia hires knee crackers to collect late fees... perhaps more reasonable to you than putting up with those evil human beings you were renting an empty house to.
...sorry...I just cant help but picture you guys with granny in a hammer lock or your foot on pappy's oxygen hose. You make me sick fellas. Seriously.

[austin-steve]

CD - thanks for your opinions. The good news is you are free to run your landlording business as you wish, and be as lenient as you wish. Good luck.
Steve

[elamigo]

This is exactly the mentality that is infesting the market and the industry. Why should I automatically assume my tenant is being rude or mean spirited? Where is this BS coming from in this industry? (Slum lords who rent to people who cannot pay, will not pay, or would pay if given half a chance but never get one)

Here is an example of exaggerating and assuming to much. I refered to an action, not the intent of the individual not paying his/her rent on time. Lateness for meeting, dates, appointments, etc. are actions labeled as uncourteous, inconsiderate, rude, etc. That is not BS whatsoever. It is simple courtesy and keeping a word.
I have been late before and have had mitigating circumstances. In some case they did not matter and in some case it did not matter. Regardless, I am not crying why I have to pay for my being late. That is what we call it personal responsiblity. That is why society is getting infested with an attitude of people not wanting to own up to their responsibility and actions, bottom line. Was that individual late? Yes? Ok, there are consequences. I have had Soldiers late for formation. Now, do I ask them why they were late? I do. Have I given them a break? I have. However, I have realized in my life I am going to be late for a commitment on my part before I a suspense date or time. It works wonders when I pick up the phone and tell somebody my situation, that's courtesy. The speeding ticket reply does not hold water either. Being late is a violation of a contract.

..as I said, I charge late fees, but, if i were to have misplaced a zero or applied the fee to the wrong tenant, yes, I have consideration for the person making the complaint. Sounds to me like you dont like waiting in line for your turn at the wheels of American capitalism in a free or fair market. (How very un-democratic of you) Do the people not have avenue to resolve a grievance in your perfect world? Ever been late for a showing and lose the client? Kind of harsh for a few minutes don't ya think? or is it a double standard with that too? You can demand payment at high noon but when the gunfight turns to how fast you can get a pipe fixed, they get to wait to the maximum limit or letter of the law?

Another type of comment to the person by labeling me with assesment and negative comments. I, again, am refering to an action from late people. I do not lable their intentions and their character. I simply address an action. I never said anything about peoples intent and character. We are not perfect and may faulter, OK, let us look at it and maybe give a break. Do not go to the extreme as if I am labeling everybody the same. I am addressing people that do come across as irresponsible. Others, I believe in giving breaks. Also, did I ever say people should not have any avenues for grievances? No, so why address that point? Histrionics tend to lead to this type of replies adding points never addressed.

What I dispute, even as a owner, is that I am somehow compelled to immediately penalize the tenant to the maximum extent allowable or that if I exceed that amount I should not be questioned nor expect any complaint. Where are you guys getting this premise from? A late fee is not a new source of revenue my friend. it is a safety measure, and I dare say an extremely abused one. Everybody is NOT out to get you. Trust me.

Again, another emotional reply that leads into assumptions on my reply. Again, did I ever say not to listen to complaints? No. Did I say everybody is out to get me? No either so where did you get that from? I am a very trustful person to the exteme I may say. I been accused of being naive for trusting people to much and I have been stabbed a times but I do not let that loose trust on people. Do not read to much into what people say and/or write. If you stick to the specific words and/or statements and reply to that specific points you would avoid all these assumptions.

...by this I have no idea to what you are referring, unless your implication is that I am wrong for making the "preceding flame job" understand he is not the prevailing word on the question posed. The question is legitimate and noOne implied anything about getting out of a late fee. To ask weather or not 10% is excessive is a legitimate question. In my humble opinion I believe 10% is not only reasonable, it should be more common. Problem is, 30% is more common and is USURY and ABUSE and any attitude that supports it should be opposed (Hence my remaining presence in defense of the notion that "to question" is in no way deserving of a flame job or victimization through false implication) ...so who is wrong and who is right? and who said anything about making the other guy the bad guy? Obviously,The bad guy must be the guy who asked the question and got flamed for it?

In a exchange of views people do bring up other points to the table, nothing wrong with that or is it? So I addressed the area of personal responsibility, did I violate some group rule I cannot touch on other points?
As far as what you consider usury it is very subjective. Some people have their differing views on that the fact that laws may vary proves city leaders vary as to what usury may be.

I am not attacking any individual here whatsoever. I addressed a principle of responsiblity, an action, not intent. It would be better if you stick to that instead all writing how undemocratic I may be or assessing me.

...and you see nothing wrong with the idea that should be dismissed as totally irrelevant in a landlord/tenant relationship? Good grief man, he asked if 10% was excessive, obviously he doesn't know that is standard, not like he is abusing it, but at the same time you got a guy posting blue flame to smoke him before he even gets the answer. Steve basically told him to quit trying to get out of paying the bill you are wrong for even asking. Steve made only one point, that he is exactly the kind of mean spirited problem child that gives this industry a bad name.

This the prime example of assessing the individual. I agreed with his points on his action. I never said he is a nice or bad guy (nor mean spirited as you called him). I simply addressed the issue of personal responsibility. You went to emotional tactics labeling him.

Not true. You dont eliminate the problems by being any of this. Punctual? Okay, I'll try to make sure the next person that dies in my family does so on time... responsible? you mean like, actually paying the bill if its late? or making sure it never is? How about a definition of responsibility that says hey, I will try to pay it on time by a certain date. If I dont make it by then, I understand there is a late charge. If that late charge is excessive, then we got a problem because I am responsible enough to make sure you dont make a mistake either. And...here's some mind blowing info for ya BOSS, United got nailed for 6 million plus over excessive late fees to customers.... SIX MILLION..... now, you wanna tell me about "Responsible"? Tenants have an obligation to pay on time, yes. They do NOT have the obligation to bend over whenever that doesn't happen. Late fee yes. Rape no. Get a job doing something besides robbing people and you would realize that life isn't a retirement plan on a fixed income where everything happens to keep you in depends, cause, God knows your as "regular as rent" and we dont wanna find out what happens when you aint.

Again, read what I wrote above. Now, you want to address how United got nailed for excessive late fees. Good they got cought and they should pay the price. They also should be responsible, so what is your point. Did I ever say a landlord is not responble for anything? They should too, both sides. The point I addressed to people that are irresponsible. Addressing people dying is another emotional fallacy statement I just do not think necessary. Generally people do look at extreme situations, there are those jerks that do not care and laws are there to try to take care of those situation to protect customers. I am for that.

In summary, the PS is a lot emotional stuff. If you have an agenda against republicans or anybody else, that has nothing to do with your reply to my message. Address that to republicans and/or conservatives. This type of reply simply tells took the opportunity to talk about republican conservatives. If you have something against those guys, address them or start a thread on that issue.

The bottom line? I simply addressed the area of personal responsiblity that Steve talked about.

I like to listen to people. Listening is important. In this case I think reading is the substitute for listening. Well, I listened to you. You listened to me by reading too. The difference? I stayed with the specific point and may have addressed example. You brought up assumptions on what you read. Also because I do not believe in irresponsible people, does not mean I do not listen. I do, however, have framed a saying I came up on my own for people when they have brought disagreements. It says, "Do not confuse listening with compliance". Very often people leave the office where they complained and their comment is "did not listen". Well, often they were heard, in reality they are saying "I do not like they did not agree with me".

You have a great day.
El Amigo

[Arkham Inmate # 5150]

When I signed my 6 month lease it stated rent had to be postmarked by the 6th or be charged a $20 late after the 20Th the fee would repeat.
I do my best to make sure to get the rent in the mail before either date. I send bank cashiers checks that are brought the same day they are sent so both the postmark and rent have the same date stamp.
This went well until my lease ended and went to month to month.
Now my landlord is wants me to pay late fees I know I don't owe.
Example She wanted me to pay a second $20 late fee because the rent was posted marked the 19th.Well I sent her back a copy of the lease i signed that was in her own hand.A week later I get a letter from her saying thank you for reminding her about the agreement.Then she says after looking at her records she says I owe $80 in fees for the months of 7/8/08,(now this one is funny I will explain later)10/8/08 ,9/22/08 and 12/8/08.

The dates I sent the rent out are 7/5/08 ,9/19/08 ,10/3/08 and 12/6/08.

Did you know when you buy bank cashiers checks they have 2 dates?
The date you buy the check and the date it gets cashed?
After checking my records I found out some interesting things.
All the dates she gives are the days she cashed the checks not the post marked dates except one the funny one(10/8/08 ) The funny one 10/8/08
is way off. I sent it out on the 3rd on the 15th I get a letter from her husband because she was in China saying to call him in 24 hours due to nonpayment of rent.
I call him from work on the 16th and explain to l him I sent the rent on the 3rd and I would send him a copy.A few days later I get a letter from saying he'd indeed had received the rent. He contacted me on the 10/15/08 yet she says her records say the 10/08/08 and it was cashed
sometime after the 20th.
Do I have to pay a late fee for her holding on to the checks so I incur a late fee?

[Anu2]

Originally Posted by Arkham Inmate # 5150

Do I have to pay a late fee for her holding on to the checks so I incur a late fee?

No, of course not. As long as you sent the checks within the time frame that the lease stated (as it appears you did), you do not have to pay late fees. Your landlord sounds like a crook.

[bentlebee]

Originally Posted by Arkham Inmate # 5150

When I signed my 6 month lease it stated rent had to be postmarked by the 6th or be charged a $20 late after the 20Th the fee would repeat.
I do my best to make sure to get the rent in the mail before either date. I send bank cashiers checks that are brought the same day they are sent so both the postmark and rent have the same date stamp.
This went well until my lease ended and went to month to month.
Now my landlord is wants me to pay late fees I know I don't owe.
Example She wanted me to pay a second $20 late fee because the rent was posted marked the 19th.Well I sent her back a copy of the lease i signed that was in her own hand.A week later I get a letter from her saying thank you for reminding her about the agreement.Then she says after looking at her records she says I owe $80 in fees for the months of 7/8/08,(now this one is funny I will explain later)10/8/08 ,9/22/08 and 12/8/08.

The dates I sent the rent out are 7/5/08 ,9/19/08 ,10/3/08 and 12/6/08.

Did you know when you buy bank cashiers checks they have 2 dates?
The date you buy the check and the date it gets cashed?
After checking my records I found out some interesting things.
All the dates she gives are the days she cashed the checks not the post marked dates except one the funny one(10/8/08 ) The funny one 10/8/08
is way off. I sent it out on the 3rd on the 15th I get a letter from her husband because she was in China saying to call him in 24 hours due to nonpayment of rent.
I call him from work on the 16th and explain to l him I sent the rent on the 3rd and I would send him a copy.A few days later I get a letter from saying he'd indeed had received the rent. He contacted me on the 10/15/08 yet she says her records say the 10/08/08 and it was cashed
sometime after the 20th.
Do I have to pay a late fee for her holding on to the checks so I incur a late fee?

What about paying on time...which is before the first of the month...you wouldn't have to ask the question here if you kept to what you signed for...if you push the button and are trying to pay every month as late as possible you can get in trouble.
I had one tenant doing so and I have a heavy fine...so I guess he thought that he could get around it by giving me twice a check that didn't have enough funds so it was taken out of my account by my bank due to NSF....I only charged him $ 15.- fee that my bank charged me as administrative fees. I didn't charge the late fees but told him after 2 times that I would start to charge it the next time....

[Arkham Inmate # 5150]

Originally Posted by bentlebee

What about paying on time...which is before the first of the month...you wouldn't have to ask the question here if you kept to what you signed for...if you push the button and are trying to pay every month as late as possible you can get in trouble.
I had one tenant doing so and I have a heavy fine...so I guess he thought that he could get around it by giving me twice a check that didn't have enough funds so it was taken out of my account by my bank due to NSF....I only charged him $ 15.- fee that my bank charged me as administrative fees. I didn't charge the late fees but told him after 2 times that I would start to charge it the next time....

No button pushing here. I work for a temp agency so my hours change.
Anytime I thought I was going to be late I notified her.The only one rent payment that had a late fee was 9/19/08 which I paid.Now she wants me to pay a second late fee because her records say 9/22/08. I have kept everything lease agreement ,letters from her and her husband you name it I have it. I am following the same rules that were in my 6 month lease nothing has changed.Ever since my lease went to month to month she stopped sending receipts.Yes I have requested them she says she will get them to me.
What do I do ?When I showed her I didn't owe her a second $20 fee first she thanked then asked for $80 in late fees for last years rent.On top of all this I received a letter from her saying (This letter is to inform you of an increase in rent starting May 1 2009.Taxes and other expenses have risen sharply.Your rent will be increased from $755 to $780 starting in May ) I am looking to move from here asap. Have any suggestions on what do till then? Can she have me evicted if I don't pay the bogus late fees? I have proof I don't owe them.

[sweetskeet35]

Does anyone know the legal amount a landlord can charge in South Carolina???... I am wondering if 30% is legal....???.....The lease is expired now, and we live on a month to month ...so am I still expected to pay such a high fee if I am late?..It just doesn't seem right to have to pay that amount. For those of you who have ripped the late tenant apart in the other comment boxes.. keep in mind that I have been living with leaks for a year and a half.. and now when i tried to discuss the late fee with the landlord he says go ahead and pay your late fee and we'll send someone out there to fix it... this has been going on for a year and a half... HELLLLPPPPPPP! Also keep in mind that I have never missed a month, I have always paid my rent.. called when it was late... but why is he allowed to not fix things and if i don't like it, I can just move... but if i am late he can charge a fee of almost half my rent which is 700.00 per month??? Grand total for 15 days late..... 215.00 that makes my rent 915.00 per month....Things in life happen.. just because you pay late doesn't mean you should be taken advantage of does it???????

[sweetskeet35]

Originally Posted by Arkham Inmate # 5150

No button pushing here. I work for a temp agency so my hours change.
Anytime I thought I was going to be late I notified her.The only one rent payment that had a late fee was 9/19/08 which I paid.Now she wants me to pay a second late fee because her records say 9/22/08. I have kept everything lease agreement ,letters from her and her husband you name it I have it. I am following the same rules that were in my 6 month lease nothing has changed.Ever since my lease went to month to month she stopped sending receipts.Yes I have requested them she says she will get them to me.
What do I do ?When I showed her I didn't owe her a second $20 fee first she thanked then asked for $80 in late fees for last years rent.On top of all this I received a letter from her saying (This letter is to inform you of an increase in rent starting May 1 2009.Taxes and other expenses have risen sharply.Your rent will be increased from $755 to $780 starting in May ) I am looking to move from here asap. Have any suggestions on what do till then? Can she have me evicted if I don't pay the bogus late fees? I have proof I don't owe them.

****I feel sorry for you.. we are going through a similair situation... Some landlords are greedy and not responsible... My landlord charges 30% late fees and i am sick of it.. I too call if i am ever late and I don't think it is legal to charge that amount in South Carolina.. I have never missed a month of payment and am very irritated at the fact that I have to deal with someone so rude and non understanding...I have had a leak for 1 and a half years.. GRRRR.. no one has deducted this from my rent and I wasn't able to charge a late maintanance fee for them not fixing it either... I am sick over it...