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I saw this(below) post on another forum and am interested in opinions. I don't know anything about this personally. Do you think if the landlord made a story like this up, would the judge rule in the landlord's favor? It's possible that the landlord could have signed the check over to someone else and said it wasn't him. It was my impression that canceled checks are proof of payment. Also what would the case be if the tenant had proof of delivery(check simply stolen from mailbox)?
"Made payment to landlord through bank electronic bill pay. Bank Sent paper check to landlords address. Check was cashed with double endorsement first the landlords forged signature, second pay to the order of person X. Landlord denies receiving or endorsing rent check. Ultimately neither she nor I have the Rent money. Who takes the loss and is responsible for pursuing legal charges and obtaining payment? Was the money stolen from me and rent payment was never rendered or was the money stolen from her and she has been the victim of identity theft. To be noted forged endorsement is very similar to landlords actual signature indicating that it was stolen by someone with some degree of connection to her."
From what I've heard over the years forgery is almost always someone
they knew, banks normaly investigate family first, I had it happen and yes,
it was family even though I didn't want to believe it.
It could also be a scam, to get double payment.
Hand written receipts are the best proof of payment, a canceled check
proves you paid your rent, but not that you paid on time, and should the
check somehow get lost, (and it happens especially in complexes where
there are hundreds of checks coming in) the tenant can throw it back in the LLs lap.
To say what a judge would decide, they look at the facts and proof,
the burden of proof would be on you. You live and learn.
Edit
You would pursue your end with your bank, But would still be liable for the rental payment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008
I saw this(below) post on another forum and am interested in opinions. I don't know anything about this personally. Do you think if the landlord made a story like this up, would the judge rule in the landlord's favor? It's possible that the landlord could have signed the check over to someone else and said it wasn't him. It was my impression that canceled checks are proof of payment. Also what would the case be if the tenant had proof of delivery(check simply stolen from mailbox).
"Made payment to landlord through bank electronic bill pay. Bank Sent paper check to landlords address. Check was cashed with double endorsement first the landlords forged signature, second pay to the order of person X. Landlord denies receiving or endorsing rent check. Ultimately neither she nor I have the Rent money. Who takes the loss and is responsible for pursuing legal charges and obtaining payment? Was the money stolen from me and rent payment was never rendered or was the money stolen from her and she has been the victim of identity theft. To be noted forged endorsement is very similar to landlords actual signature indicating that it was stolen by someone with some degree of connection to her."
I think...and that's 'think' an electronic payment (even if it was web bill pay thru bank where they mail a check) that would be your 'receipt'...same as a certified letter. You have a disinterested party verifying the date they mailed it, how much was paid, where it was mailed, etc.
If it went to the landlord's address- the renter is done. I would think it would be up to the landlord to discover where it went. Same as if you mailed a mortgage payment to your bank, certified- you have proof it was mailed and if the check is cashed- same thing. (maybe the spouse took it, maybe someone else at the residence took it, etc)
Now a judge would have to make the decision but I think it would lean to the renter on this one. The burden of proof would be met on the part of the renter. The renter paid (has a date and how much) and the funds were taken out of their account.
This would be interesting to find out what a judge would actually rule.
I'm not sure who would be 'liable' in the legal sense, but the person who needs to take the first step is the landlord. They are the only ones who can attest to the fact that the signature is a forgery, no one else can do it on their behalf. So they go to the bank, look at a copy of the back of the check, and sign an affidavit stating that the signature is not theirs.
With that affidavit, the bank should then acknowledge that with the check being improperly cashed, the funds were improperly withdrawn from the tenant's account. Now they may do some behind-the-scenes actions like file a police report or with some other authority or file a claim with their insurers to recoup their money, but the affidavit should be, in my personal experience, enough for them to return the money to the tenant's account. And then the tenant can write a new check and give to the landlord.
Legally the liability is probably with the bank, for not obtaining proper verification of the signing party before cashing the check. And of course the person who fraudulently signed the check holds the greatest liability.
A good thing banks are camera equipped, even if it were deposited thru a window, camera there as well. They'll track it, it shouldn't take long either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodaka
I'm not sure who would be 'liable' in the legal sense, but the person who needs to take the first step is the landlord. They are the only ones who can attest to the fact that the signature is a forgery, no one else can do it on their behalf. So they go to the bank, look at a copy of the back of the check, and sign an affidavit stating that the signature is not theirs.
With that affidavit, the bank should then acknowledge that with the check being improperly cashed, the funds were improperly withdrawn from the tenant's account. Now they may do some behind-the-scenes actions like file a police report or with some other authority or file a claim with their insurers to recoup their money, but the affidavit should be, in my personal experience, enough for them to return the money to the tenant's account. And then the tenant can write a new check and give to the landlord.
Legally the liability is probably with the bank, for not obtaining proper verification of the signing party before cashing the check. And of course the person who fraudulently signed the check holds the greatest liability.
Are you under the impression the LL has plans to take you to court?
You've got your verification that the payment was sent out.
Why can't the money be transfered to the LLs account each month?
This isn't me just something I read on another forum, and was curious what would happen if it went to court, since I read the thread on cashier's checks.
This isn't me just something I read on another forum, and was curious what would happen if it went to court, since I read the thread on cashier's checks.
]I saw this(below) post on another forum and am interested in opinions.[/i] I don't know anything about this personally. Do you think if the landlord made a story like this up, would the judge rule in the landlord's favor? It's possible that the landlord could have signed the check over to someone else and said it wasn't him. It was my impression that canceled checks are proof of payment. Also what would the case be if the tenant had proof of delivery(check simply stolen from mailbox)?
"Made payment to landlord through bank electronic bill pay. Bank Sent paper check to landlords address. Check was cashed with double endorsement first the landlords forged signature, second pay to the order of person X. Landlord denies receiving or endorsing rent check. Ultimately neither she nor I have the Rent money. Who takes the loss and is responsible for pursuing legal charges and obtaining payment? Was the money stolen from me and rent payment was never rendered or was the money stolen from her and she has been the victim of identity theft. To be noted forged endorsement is very similar to landlords actual signature indicating that it was stolen by someone with some degree of connection to her."
It is the banks resposibility. The LL is out of the deal. Stolen and forged check. YOU need to make the claim with the bank and file a police report. You still owe the rent. I would not be surprised if it was someone the LL knew.
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