Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We rented a house on a one year lease and then month to month several months after the lease was up. We recently purchased a house and called the landlord to give her a months notice that we would be moving out. The rent was $800 and the deposit we put down was $800. We couldn't get in touch with her to do the walk thru and return the keys. However, she did send her grandson out to get one of the keys, but we didn't give him all because we wanted to do the deposit, rent, walk thru, all together.
Well someone started to rent the property so we had to return the keys. She never did the walk thru, but her grandson said the house looks really nice (we cleaned our butt off). She called three weeks ago saying she would pay us around 260 since someone is renting the house now and our month wasn't up.
Fastforward three weeks- we haven't gotten anything so we call her. She says she is gonna take off $100 for paint also now and we should be grateful because her grandson says nobody ever gets their security deposit back. This is insane! The house was in great shape, there was for sure not $800 in touch ups that need to be done. Also isn't painting "normal wear and tear"- not that it needed it. I don't thinks she's willing to give us anything now. Any advice?
Check the LL/tenant laws for your state, they are probably on-line.
Mistakes made by you: always notify your LL in writing, you should have returned the keys when you left. As you still had the keys, it could be argues that you were still in possession of the property and owed rent.
Most states require that a LL give you a detailed list of deductions from the deposit in writing within a certain amount of time of moving out. If your LL did not do this, you may be able to recover the deposit by going through small claims court or the equivalent in your state but be prepared for the key issue to come up in defense.
Why did she deduct for the month if rent was paid?
Legally, what day during the month you move is your option and as long as the rental is paid thru the month, there's no reason for a deduction.
Normal wear and tear is a variable term, the LLs opinion was beyond what would be considered normal. $100 isn't an excessive charge, however, some LLs choose to repaint after each tenant vacates, at no charge, it's there option.
As a renter, you need to know the Landlord Tenant Laws for your state and take the necessary steps to protect your security deposit to insure the return.
Pictures and videos are the best proof when filling in small claims, otherwise it's a he said she said.
Send a letter of request for itemized deductions. If your not satisfied with the reasons for deductions and have an objection, you can send her another letter(certified) stating just that and the amount you feel your owed. Give her some time to respond and then file in small claims. Unless you didn't pay all the rent thru the month, she owes you some cash.
Here are the regulations for the state of Tennessee. There may be more laws pertaining to the city or county in which you live.
Based on the description you've given, the LL may be able to deduct for paint. They can deduct if the damage exceeded what a tenant would normally incur during the course of a year. A few scuff marks by the door where your bag or coat brushed is normal. A few nail holes are normal. If they choose to repaint with normal wear, it is at their own cost. Large holes or walls not repainted to their original color, or major stains would be above normal wear. Also, they could deduct for rekeying. It may have seemed logical to you to keep the keys, but failing to turn them over constitutes failure to vacate, and the landlord has to have the locks rekeyed. The deduction would be for each key not returned.
Under Tennessee law, the LL is in violation for failing to perform the walk thru and provide you with itemized deductions within 10 days of your move out. And under Tennessee law you should file a complaint with the Tennessee Circuit Court (http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/index.htm - broken link).
In addition to this complaint, you should also send (in writing via certified mail or other traceable means) a letter notifying the landlord that you dispute their right to keep all of your deposit. You need to do this within 60 days or you forfeit the right to your deposit.
The fact that the grandson stated that the LL never gives back deposits will not be looked kindly upon by a court. It defies reason and logic that all of the LL's tenants fail to turn over the units in reasonable condition. It suggests that the LL is using the deposits for normal maintenance and care, or is lying about the conditions the apartments are in. You might need to subpoena the grandson (it's just a form).
The biggest mistake renters make is not giving a written notice that you are moving. We lived in an apartment in Charlotte and when we started to buy a house, I was told by one of the tenants that no one ever got back a deposit from the company we rented from. So I read our contract and it required a written notice. I gave the written notice before 30 days of our move and had the deposit returned.
Check to see if your state landlord/tenant regulations require written as well as oral notice of a move (check the original lease). From your post it sounds like you left the place in a clean condition. I have had to take the last 2 landlords I rented from to court because for some insane reason they thought they could keep the deposit (I won both cases). kodaka's post listing her states landlord/tenant laws about normal wear and tear is absolutely correct in all cases. Unless you were doing target practice in the house and it altered the paint, it is the landlords decision (and expense) to upgrade their property. I have learned to take pictures before and after renting. If written notice is not required in your state or in your lease; take them to court. Good luck to you and yours.
Thanks all. I really wish we gave written instead of just oral notice. The reason we didn't return the keys is because we moved mid- Nov., but paid thru Dec. We thought we could keep the keys as long as we still paid the rent. Her son wanted the keys at the first of Dec. to show the house, but we didn't want to hand them over to him, we wanted HER to do the walk thru and give them to HER. We did give him one key. Not sure why she was having her grandson do all this for her. However, because the rent and deposit were the same amount, we figured it would be called even (this was all discussed with LL over phone) until she went to look at the place to see what condition it was left in and hopefully give us some of the deposit back. We left it immaculate! It was cleaner when we left than it was when we first moved in! Her grandson even said so to us when we gave him the one key. Now he is saying no one gets the deposit back? WTF?
She at least owes us the money from the new tenant who moved in mid-Dec. Otherwise she is getting rent from the both of us for that one month. She is such a greedy old lady! Not sure why she is so stingy about this as she lives in a mansion and is obviously very well off! Grrr!
Thanks all. I really wish we gave written instead of just oral notice. The reason we didn't return the keys is because we moved mid- Nov., but paid thru Dec. We thought we could keep the keys as long as we still paid the rent. Her son wanted the keys at the first of Dec. to show the house, but we didn't want to hand them over to him, we wanted HER to do the walk thru and give them to HER. We did give him one key. Not sure why she was having her grandson do all this for her. However, because the rent and deposit were the same amount, we figured it would be called even (this was all discussed with LL over phone) until she went to look at the place to see what condition it was left in and hopefully give us some of the deposit back. We left it immaculate! It was cleaner when we left than it was when we first moved in! Her grandson even said so to us when we gave him the one key. Now he is saying no one gets the deposit back? WTF?
She at least owes us the money from the new tenant who moved in mid-Dec. Otherwise she is getting rent from the both of us for that one month. She is such a greedy old lady! Not sure why she is so stingy about this as she lives in a mansion and is obviously very well off! Grrr!
Keep a written log of all of your in-person and telephone interactions with both. (reconstruct the past to the best of your recollection). Note names, dates, words said. Be careful not to assume that the grandson is a spokesperson for the LL. His statement that he has observed the LL has never given back deposits is valid, since that is his own observation, and just that--observation. But his statement that the unit was clean enough may not be valid since he may not be authorized to make such inspections on behalf of the LL.
Their argument that they needed your keys to show the unit is ridiculous. Surely they have their own keys, and if they don't, well that's their fault and you shouldn't have had to turn over your set of keys to a unit you were still paying to occupy.
We rented a house on a one year lease and then month to month several months after the lease was up. We recently purchased a house and called the landlord to give her a months notice that we would be moving out. The rent was $800 and the deposit we put down was $800. We couldn't get in touch with her to do the walk thru and return the keys. However, she did send her grandson out to get one of the keys, but we didn't give him all because we wanted to do the deposit, rent, walk thru, all together.
Well someone started to rent the property so we had to return the keys. She never did the walk thru, but her grandson said the house looks really nice (we cleaned our butt off). She called three weeks ago saying she would pay us around 260 since someone is renting the house now and our month wasn't up.
Fastforward three weeks- we haven't gotten anything so we call her. She says she is gonna take off $100 for paint also now and we should be grateful because her grandson says nobody ever gets their security deposit back. This is insane! The house was in great shape, there was for sure not $800 in touch ups that need to be done. Also isn't painting "normal wear and tear"- not that it needed it. I don't thinks she's willing to give us anything now. Any advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chai26
Thanks all. I really wish we gave written instead of just oral notice. The reason we didn't return the keys is because we moved mid- Nov., but paid thru Dec. We thought we could keep the keys as long as we still paid the rent. Her son wanted the keys at the first of Dec. to show the house, but we didn't want to hand them over to him, we wanted HER to do the walk thru and give them to HER. We did give him one key. Not sure why she was having her grandson do all this for her. However, because the rent and deposit were the same amount, we figured it would be called even (this was all discussed with LL over phone) until she went to look at the place to see what condition it was left in and hopefully give us some of the deposit back. We left it immaculate! It was cleaner when we left than it was when we first moved in! Her grandson even said so to us when we gave him the one key. Now he is saying no one gets the deposit back? WTF?
She at least owes us the money from the new tenant who moved in mid-Dec. Otherwise she is getting rent from the both of us for that one month. She is such a greedy old lady! Not sure why she is so stingy about this as she lives in a mansion and is obviously very well off! Grrr!
Ok, so lets see if we can all get on the same page.
You say you were paid through December, but then you say "Because the rent and deposit were the same amount, we figured it would be called even" and "we wanted to do the deposit, rent, walkthrough all together". So did you actually pay December's rent or not?
Walkthroughs usually aren't required by law, so the fact that they wouldn't do one is annoying for you, but probably not illegal. You would still be responsible to make sure that keys were returned. However, since your lease time wasn't up yet (again assuming December's rent was paid), then you weren't in violation on the keys.
If, in fact, your rent WAS paid through December, they didn't have the right to rent it out from under you without discussing it with you first, but if they did, they owe you prorated rent back from when the new tenant took occupancy.
Then the question is, how much is she offering? Because you said she is taking $100 off for paint, then that she is holding the entire $800 for touchup. You say that the son says you should be grateful (which sounds like you are getting something back), but then that he says no one gets a deposit back.
I'm having a bit of trouble following this story.
It sounds to me, if I'm reading it right, that you should be owed $800 - any damages, which may include paint touchup due to damage and then either - prorated December rent if you didn't pay it, or + prorated December rent back for the rerented time if you did pay it.
If you did pay December rent on time, then it sounds like you are in the right and you are owed, at the very very least, an itemized list of what was held out for repairs and the prorated share of rent back. If you didn't pay December's rent, it gets messier. If there was little or no damage, I hope you have photos, since it sounds like you are heading to small claims court. Find out your state's laws for this situation and do that. In my state, you have to send a certified letter requesting deposit be returned within 3 days, if they fail to comply, then you take them to court.
*Edit* Oh, and I would hold off making judgements about the LL's level of wealth. In this economy, everyone is broke at different levels. She may live in a mansion that was paid off years ago, but she also could be mortgaged to the hilt and one month away from losing everything. You are seeing the very very surface and have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Not making excuses for her, as she still has to follow legal rules, but calling her a greedy old lady doesn't really help your case, or make you sound any more credible. I would suggest you refrain from such during small claims court.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
