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Old 11-25-2010, 07:57 PM
 
1,482 posts, read 1,955,632 times
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Got a strange situation where an American bloke married to an Australian woman wants to go there because he is now unemployed and has a heart condition.
Has no US health insurance cannot afford it and now of course the Aussies are saying they do not want him, he is too old at 55 and of course will not pass a medical and would just be a drain on their universal health care.

Sad part about this bloke is that he still believes universal healthcare is socialism which it is and he is against socialim until he needs it.
Now he is stuck unless medicaid? kicks in.

Why is it that even those who need universal health care are against it in the USA ?
It seems logic and rationality have gone out the window when it comes to health care in the US.
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:29 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 89,014,893 times
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Bascailly he is not wanted as they have enough that their citizens have paid for. Its like VSA's where no nation wants dependents but people who can support the nation. As to why people are aginst nationalizing healthcare is a matter of their not liking to be a buerden on others is my guesss. Someone has to pay for it really.The is no freee healthcare ecept for charity cases existing that others actaully pay for in increased cost of theirs.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
14,195 posts, read 27,152,133 times
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They are afraid their taxes will go up.

Truth is, if you add it all up, we are already paying as much in taxes as they do in countries that provide healthcare. The US choses to spend tax dollars on foreign countries and foreign wars instead of their own people.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 18,991,333 times
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Indeed, Nzrugby, the situation in the U.S. is sad. I think the reason there is such divided opinion here about universal health care is that many people are all set (health care through their employment, or through government Medicare if they are 65 or over). So if one is just fine and dandy, that person has less urgency about changing the system for the sake of those who are not. And of course people worry about how the increased costs will be paid for, as already pointed out here.
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:13 PM
 
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Logic and rationality do indeed go out the window in the country, but then again we have a long history of doing that. This country was founded on individualism and somewhat of an "every man for himself" menality. This anachronistic mentality is made even more absurd when you consider the other things our country does today that would have the founding father's rolling in their graves anyway.
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:07 AM
 
11,285 posts, read 10,794,541 times
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America is full of people who loudly proclaim their individualism and than partake heavily of government assistance. We have farmers who couldn't stay in business without government subsidies who continually criticize the "socialists" in Washington for handing out welfare to others. During the recent healthcare debate, many people cannot forget the sight of one muddle-brained senior citizen who loudly said "keep your government hands off my Medicare". I remember I used to have arguments in college with libertarian minded students who couldn't have made it to college without hefty student loans (guaranteed by the US Government). Somehow, they could never see the irony of what they were doing.

There is a certain mythology that exists in our country about people climbing from the bottom of the social ladder to the very top based purely on their own skills and a laisse faire business climate. The reality is something different. Government has played a key role in the American economy literally since the formation of our country. Alexander Hamilton (our first secretary of the treasury) pushed something called the "Hamiltonian Program" through Congress. This program created a Treasury, a Bank of the United States, and assumed state obligations to pay bonds that had been issued to fight the Revolutionary War. Our early history is full of efforts by Congress and the President to stimulate the economy by increasing or tightening the money supply. The first income tax was actually imposed during the 1860's as a measure by President Lincoln to raise money to fight the Civil War.

Of course, none of this in and of itself proves that it would be a good idea to enact a program of national health insurance or at least, universal healthcare. I have heard many reasonable objections to such a system. The ones I take seriously are the ones that pertain to the cost of such a system and the quality of care that would be rendered under it. On the other hand, I just roll my eyes when someone says we should be against universal care because its "socialistic". What should seem very evident to all, is that despite the huge fortune we pay for healthcare in America that it still leaves much to be desired. A recent study by the World Health Organization ranks the USA behind 36 other nations in the quality of care it provides its citizens.

I only wish that those seniors who have the security of Medicare would see the wisdom of building some type of a system that would guarantee some type of universal care to all. I think it would do more to increase national security than the mightiest army or the biggest navy could.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:37 AM
 
Location: mid-west
72 posts, read 101,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I only wish that those seniors who have the security of Medicare would see the wisdom of building some type of a system that would guarantee some type of universal care to all. I think it would do more to increase national security than the mightiest army or the biggest navy could.
I agree. We think that the more we spend on the military the "safer" we are. Right now many countries, especially, China, are getting ahead of us in almost everything that really matters. All we seem to be first in is the military (or has China surpassed us in that too?)

To be "safer" we need to build our economy (and stop borrowing money from the Chinese) which would be helped if US workers weren't competing for jobs with workers in other countries where their employers do not have to pay for health insurance.

As a side note on the military spending in this country....I saw a presentation once. I think it was on Utube. One of the founders of Ben & Jerry's ice cream was giving presentations on the US budget using Oreos (maybe that's why it stuck with me). The largest thing our taxes are spent on is by far the military. It towered over everything! Think of the good even a small part of that money could do in this country.

I think of that huge stack of Oreos when I hear that the three largest costs in the budget are the military, SS and medicare/medicaid. The numbers don't even come close to being the same (plus the money we put in to SS should never have been combined into the general budget.)
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Eureka CA
9,517 posts, read 12,656,929 times
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Just like Sarah Palin's family crossing over to Canada for healthcare (which she freely admits.). This is not a subject on which rational thought prevails. I'm just tired of living in a country that worries more about rights for gun nuts than health care for its citizens. Obamacare,however flawed, is a start.
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:42 AM
 
144 posts, read 299,403 times
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Actually, most people who against national health are currently employed with employer provided insurance (be it private or government) and those who are being misled by the insurance companies which spent over 90 million dollars to fight insurance reform.

The fact that the US spent more than any countries in the world and 50 million americans don't have health insurance means that we're paying way too much already in tax and insurance. Having too many insurance companies is very inefficient because we have to pay for much more overhead (executive salaries, duplicate functions, marketing, etc.) instead of a single payer system.

It's sad indeed
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Old 11-27-2010, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,697 posts, read 25,404,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockproipi View Post
Actually, most people who against national health are currently employed with employer provided insurance (be it private or government) and those who are being misled by the insurance companies which spent over 90 million dollars to fight insurance reform.

The fact that the US spent more than any countries in the world and 50 million Americans don't have health insurance means that we're paying way too much already in tax and insurance. Having too many insurance companies is very inefficient because we have to pay for much more overhead (executive salaries, duplicate functions, marketing, etc.) instead of a single payer system.

It's sad indeed
Actually the number of insurance companies has gone way down over the past years. Having too few means more control for those who are left. It's called a monoply.

As long as the powerful AMA and FDA lobbyists have a stranglehold on our health care, America will suffer.

Here is an interesting article in Newsweek when a state does something about the situation. Note the role the insurers are allegedly playing in causing costs to stay low.

Mass.: How Health-Care Reform Helps Hospital Costs - Newsweek

The entire health care system this country needs an overhaul. Changing just one part won't work.

And I am completely in favor of a single party payer.
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