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Old 12-17-2010, 12:15 PM
 
13,510 posts, read 15,634,190 times
Reputation: 37885

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Has anyone else seen this opinion piece in USA Today? It really makes one think.

Seniors, it's not about you - USATODAY.com
After reading it twice, I still come away with the impression that it is more diatribe and name-calling than thoughtfully developed essay.

It is yet another example of what is so hideously apparent in the U.S. now: everyone is panicked about the current economic downturn and the fact that the U.S. is never going to be the single greatest economic and power force in the world - and we are in an orgy of finger-pointing at some terrible Other who is responsible for our fears about the future.

As someone else said the article is short (and simplistic, in my opinion) and perhaps if the author could have put an ice pack on his keyboard and had had more space to develop and follow through on his observations it might have made some more thoughtful points.

As it stands it is the usual USATODAY poop-lite.
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 18,897,097 times
Reputation: 32438
Default Thread with more info on Soc. Sec. disability benefits

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Are all these "disabled" people (who are in fact too lazy to work) drawing from Social Security? (They get SSI, so I am assuming it is coming out of the same pot. Correct me if I am wrong).

If this is the case, then we need to crack down on THEM, instead of criticizing older people for wanting to collect on something they have paid into...
To 20yrsinBranson: A fairly complete answer to your curiosity about Social Security disability benefits is contained in a thread I started in the Great Debates Forum entitled "Social Security Disability Benefits - Where Do You Stand?" That thread is now near the bottom of page 3 in Great Debates, and it had 62 responses (and is now inactive). By the way, not everyone is simply too lazy to work, and a lot of the discussion in the 62 responses revolves around that very question. I think you would find it interesting. My original post there contains basic facts about how much Social Security is paying in disabillity versus straight retirement benefits, etc.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
4,210 posts, read 4,688,270 times
Reputation: 7848
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I am going to reitterate that unless your withholdings from payroll and medicare taxes, plus some reasonable rate of interest, come close to equaling the pay out you receive than you didn't really "pay for it".

Now, if the law gives you the right to collect those benefits notwithstanding that fact, I see no evil in collecting the benefits. I would not ridicule someone for doing that to which they have a legal right to do. Its just the way the ball bounces.

What I find objectionable are those seniors who really haven't paid their own way when it comes to those benefits whining about those of us in the work force who want something like universal healthcare for all ages.

The issue is one of fairness, wanting what is good for the entire country, and not being a hypocrite.
I agree, 100%.
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Ocala, FL
66 posts, read 124,970 times
Reputation: 81
I already feel screwed by Social Security. When I started working 40 years ago, my retirement age for early benefits was 59-1/2. It's now up to 62. I wish there was some lawyer with cojones who would file a class action suit for those of us who feel SS is in breach of the contract that was in effect at the time we started working.

I have worked full time since I was 16, started right after I graduated from high school (yes, I graduated at 16), and I have been employed all my life. Didn't take time off to reproduce and the longest I have been between jobs was a month. I have paid my share in. I am tired and ready to retire. Every day is a drag. I don't want to die still working. I want some time to enjoy life.

I supported my parents' and your parents' Social Security. I expect your kids to support mine and theirs will support them.

Those of you who want private accounts, go for it. I know people who would have absolutely nothing at retirement age if they weren't forced to contribute through their paychecks. You know them, too. They're the ones that live paycheck to paycheck and every disposable dollar goes toward beer and cigarettes or nose candy. If the government quit taking out SS and you expect them to voluntarily pay a percentage of their check towards their retirement, I have a bridge I can sell you.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:12 PM
 
Location: East Coast
2,921 posts, read 4,877,016 times
Reputation: 4371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheltie166 View Post
I already feel screwed by Social Security. When I started working 40 years ago, my retirement age for early benefits was 59-1/2. It's now up to 62. I wish there was some lawyer with cojones who would file a class action suit for those of us who feel SS is in breach of the contract that was in effect at the time we started working.

I think you might be mistaken about collecting early SS benefits at age 59 1/2.

Quote:
When the Social Security program was established in 1935, the age of earliest eligibility and the normal retirement age were both sixty-five. In other words, there was no provision for early retirement.
Quote:
However, in response to concerns that some individuals could not work until age sixty-five, the Social Security Amendments of 1956 (for women) and 1961 (for men) allowed for early claiming at age sixty-two, with a reduction in benefits.
AEI - The Case for Raising Social Security's Early Retirement Age

As far as I can see, the significance of 59 1/2 with regard to retirement is this: you can begin withdrawing from your IRA without suffering the 10% penalty for premature distributions. I can't find any evidence that 59 1/2 was ever an early retirement age for SS.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Ocala, FL
66 posts, read 124,970 times
Reputation: 81
Either way, they've jacked up my full retirement age from 65 to 66. Breach of contract.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 18,897,097 times
Reputation: 32438
Default Breach of contract?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheltie166 View Post
I already feel screwed by Social Security. I wish there was some lawyer with cojones who would file a class action suit for those of us who feel SS is in breach of the contract that was in effect at the time we started working.

Those of you who want private accounts, go for it. I know people who would have absolutely nothing at retirement age if they weren't forced to contribute through their paychecks. You know them, too. They're the ones that live paycheck to paycheck and every disposable dollar goes toward beer and cigarettes or nose candy. If the government quit taking out SS and you expect them to voluntarily pay a percentage of their check towards their retirement, I have a bridge I can sell you.
I'm not so sure that the Social Security retirement benefit formulas constitute a contract. The government (Congress) has the right to levy taxes. In this case, these specific taxes have to go toward paying benefits, which are also set by legislation. That implies (to me) that they can also be changed by legislation. We did not enter into a contract with the Social Security Administration whereby we voluntarily and individually agreed to pay X amount to receive Y amount later, such as an annuity contract with an insurance company. I am not an attorney, but perhaps one will post here and set me straight if I am wrong. However, I think if there was a decent case for breach of contract (as you claim) it would have already been brought.

As for your final paragraph, I am with you 100%. No truer words have ever been spoken.
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:34 AM
 
35,318 posts, read 45,285,497 times
Reputation: 30827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheltie166 View Post
I know people who would have absolutely nothing at retirement age if they weren't forced to contribute through their paychecks. You know them, too. They're the ones that live paycheck to paycheck and every disposable dollar goes toward beer and cigarettes or nose candy.
Lot of people just dont make the big bucks and spend a lifetime at low paying jobs,doesnt mean they all just sit around spending every disposable dollar on beer,cigarettes and nose candy. Most of these people are hard working people who usually work more than one job to support their families and really have no extra income to fritter away on the vices you suggest. I'd say less than 1% of less well off Americans fit your stereotype demographic.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
4,210 posts, read 4,688,270 times
Reputation: 7848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
I'm not so sure that the Social Security retirement benefit formulas constitute a contract. The government (Congress) has the right to levy taxes. In this case, these specific taxes have to go toward paying benefits, which are also set by legislation. That implies (to me) that they can also be changed by legislation. We did not enter into a contract with the Social Security Administration whereby we voluntarily and individually agreed to pay X amount to receive Y amount later, such as an annuity contract with an insurance company. I am not an attorney, but perhaps one will post here and set me straight if I am wrong. However, I think if there was a decent case for breach of contract (as you claim) it would have already been brought.
Correct. No contractual rights, therefore, no claim for breach of contract. See, Social Security Online History Pages
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:56 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,849 posts, read 32,079,940 times
Reputation: 22507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
To 20yrsinBranson: A fairly complete answer to your curiosity about Social Security disability benefits is contained in a thread I started in the Great Debates Forum entitled "Social Security Disability Benefits - Where Do You Stand?" That thread is now near the bottom of page 3 in Great Debates, and it had 62 responses (and is now inactive). By the way, not everyone is simply too lazy to work, and a lot of the discussion in the 62 responses revolves around that very question. I think you would find it interesting. My original post there contains basic facts about how much Social Security is paying in disabillity versus straight retirement benefits, etc.
I'll check it out. Thank you for the information.

20yrsinBranson
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