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Old 12-24-2010, 03:23 AM
 
Location: Texas
15,895 posts, read 16,258,694 times
Reputation: 62709

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post

Are all these "disabled" people (who are in fact too lazy to work) drawing from Social Security? (They get SSI, so I am assuming it is coming out of the same pot. Correct me if I am wrong).


20yrsinBranson
Social Security is paid out of the Social Security Trust Fund. It is Title II. SSI is a needs-based welfare program (Title XVI) and it is paid from another fund. SSI was once known as State welfare for the disabled and the aged. We at Social Security did not want the change and actually dreaded it. Never before did we have to delve into people's living arrangements, income and resources to certify that they were eligible.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:38 PM
 
Location: California
5,516 posts, read 6,232,547 times
Reputation: 11500
Yellowsnow, where do I vote for you?

Also, I lost my Dad when I was 4 years old and he was a 31 year old high school teacher. My Dad didn't have enough credits for us be eligible for any benefits. So, in that situation, what contributions he made just became pure government profit instead of helping 4 and 7 year children. My brother also paid in until he suddenly died of a heart attack at 45 so he never collected a dime. Not everyone who contributes to the system lives long enough benefit from it. If they increase the SS age to 100 the government can reduce their pay out to all us working people.

People are coming here from all over the world for our welfare benefits so I'm glad someone has finally starting checking to reduce fraud. Keep up the good work.
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:12 PM
 
15,921 posts, read 18,409,170 times
Reputation: 7661
I read the article and am royally p*ssed off. I am 63 on SS disability and have been paying into SS since I was 18.

Why shouldn't I feel I am entitled to the system I have been paying into my entire life? Why should I have empathy for someone who is just starting their career and has paid almost nothing towards SS?

And this makes me see red:
Quote:
Count me out of the Geezer Greedheads, who guzzle a huge amount of taxpayers' money and don't want to share it.
As I said I've paid into the system my entire life and gave up 4 years of my life (2 in Vietnam) in the service of my country and I'm called selfish and not want to share with people who have barely worked?

The author writes like an elitist snob who knows better than everyone else.
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:11 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,599 posts, read 33,476,070 times
Reputation: 29216
Count me in as one of the 'Self-absorbed barbarians' and note that I'm perfectly comfortable being one. I worked for 45 years before retiring two years ago. I was 62 and began drawing Social Security benefits immediately. My wife's first SS payment arrived this month, also wholly paid by dint of her labors.

Neither of us consider SS an entitlement program where we're concerned. We paid in. We draw out the benefit thereof. I have a former wife who worked part-time for about two years total -- far less than the 40 quarters necessary for her own benefits. Therefore, in two years she'll be eligible to draw from, my account which, thankfully, won't diminish my payments at all. For her it is an entitlement.

For many, many years I've heard people of several generations bemoan their lot and declare that Social Security will be dead and buried before they achieve any benefit from it. I say horse menaky! Being in the vanguard of the Boomers (I turn 65 next year) I was never worried. I also firmly believe that there will be riots and insurrection before SS benefits evaporate so long as the lazy and illegal are receiving any government benefits whatsoever in this country.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:13 PM
 
28,718 posts, read 42,742,554 times
Reputation: 37661
I'm assuming the writer of the article is maxxed out on credit cards and has a mortgage that is five times the value of the house he bought when he thought he was getting away with something, and it bit him in the a$$. Now he's found a soapbox where he can blame it all on someone else. Poor baby.

My favorite mention in the entire article was the poll the Kaiser Foundation took. I never believe anything anyone tells me came from a poll. I noticed he didn't link to the article about the poll, just to the web site. Makes me wonder why.

As for it being all about us; damn right it is.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:22 PM
 
28,718 posts, read 42,742,554 times
Reputation: 37661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Are you on the Warped Tour? The average age of a senior in a skilled nursing home - ALF - or similar facility in Florida is about 86 - not 68. My husband is 65 - I am 63 - and we do not know a single person anywhere near our age in such a facility.

Please tell us the name of the facility you're talking about and where it is. We have experience with parents who were in places like skilled nursing facilities in Florida for years - not a couple of days - e.g. River Garden up here in JAX. But - like I said - average age about 86. FWIW - no skilled nursing facility or ALF up here in JAX will admit a man under the age of 65 - one reason I very much question your assertions.

And - if you're really talking about people our age - where are their kids (who should be in their 30's and 40's)? We did know people in River Garden who were maybe 95 or older - and their kids were dead. But most people in their 60's haven't predeceased the rest of their families.

And BTW - how old are you? Robyn
While I understand your points about the entrance age at these facilities I fail to understand why you assume everyone has children. Are you on the Warped Tour?
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:53 PM
 
13,969 posts, read 12,991,789 times
Reputation: 5294
Quote:
Nothing could be further from the truth; the COLA's follow formulas set by law and no one is "entitled" to one every year.
The cost-of-living formula is thoroughly and rottenly "jimmied" to exclude costs of necessities (food, gasoline, OTC drugs and other items bought in a drug store, etc.) and to include non-necessities.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,491 posts, read 4,740,605 times
Reputation: 6163
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I was born in late 1959. That's pretty similar to 1961. Unlike you, I have always felt I got a swinging deal. College tuition was low where I grew up. I loved going to school. I earned two BS degrees and one JD. I was fairly bright, but no genius by any stretch. When I had trouble finding work, I solved that problem by going to work for myself. You and those like you are a puzzle to me.

Unfortunately, the current generation going to college doesn't have it so easy. I pay my son's college tuition and it costs him 10X what it cost me 33 years ago. Inflation has gone up during this period, but not tenfold!

I do not understand why there are so many whiners and complainers out there. Every generation has its challenges. We meet those challenges by obtaining education and training and learning to network with others. Whining gets you nowhere.

If someone anywhere in the baby boom generation cannot "make it" in America it speaks volumes about them unless they are disabled. Its far more difficult to get anywhere in most other countries. Good luck. Sounds like you really need it.
Only a lawyer, or a lottery winner, or those born rich, would think those born after 1960 had it "easy" and couldn't help but "win".

My husband and I went to college in NH, which has pretty much the highest tuition and the lowest tax support of any state. Tuition was very high even in-state, and our parents thought we should pay for it to appreciate it. We did. I later put myself through grad school while working full time during the day and going to school at night. I paid every penny of it. But by the time I earned it, the labor field was so bloated with over-educated people that it no longer was an advantage.

My spouse and I made several major mistakes, all of which were made from looking at history and seeing the only ways proven to get ahead. We both took jobs in large companies that had decent pay and pensions. Unfortunately, we stayed as the companies fell to Robber Baron CEOs and company profits were kept up by slashing employee payment and benefits. Even though we both had vested pensions, they were legally liquidated with the full approval of government via a scam called "change of control" that actually did not involve any change of control. The multi-billion dollar pension funds went straight to the CEO's already-filthy-rich pockets. Too late to start anywhere else, even if we thought those pensions wouldn't be stolen.

We both always worked 80 hours a week, and therefore starting a business in the "free time" wasn't an option. For much of the time we were in NH, which could kill the most lucrative franchises in the nation due to excessive business taxes and over-regulation and obscene property taxes. We no longer have a Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, KFC, Subway, or any other food chains except one BK. All we have left are banks and chain pharmacies.

We had paid off our 3rd house when the housing market collapsed. Since Florida had ZERO housing appreciation for the 18 years we'd lived there, while all the rest of the nation was racking up 10% and 20% gains every year, we really thought Florida was just catching up to housing prices everywhere. We didn't know of all the nationwide scams that had set us up to fail, since nobody was publicizing them. We already had stayed out of mutual funds and the stock market for decades, while others raked in huge yearly profits. We knew we couldn't ever retire with just savings, even if we sold the house, and so eventually invested money and then, of course, lost much of it.

As to the early Baby Boomers, I do agree that it was almost impossible not to do well. Our parents had only one worker (the man) in a regular job 40 hour a week job with little education, and they are all doing fine on fat pensions and Social Security.

After going to class reunion (High School 30 years), my spouse and I are actually still the most financially well-off. There were probably 60 couples there, from a place that was almost exclusively professional-middle class. Nobody had started successful businesses. Many were looking for new careers. When asked about retirement, the consensus was that it was never going to be possible.

If you really are doing fine, I guess you managed to avoid the housing crash, the workaholic job trap, mutual fund fees, stock market failure and charges, the continuing erosion of promised Social Security, the high taxes of a decent-paying job, the theft of your pension, and a million other traps. But you are NOT the rule. You are a very small minority.

Not to say the younger generation is going to have it any better. They won't. What I don't understand is that with a massive government that has totally taken over the economy, and brought it to collapse, why Americans continue to follow the same inevitable path downward to Third-World poverty and hopelessness.

As for it being "far more difficult to get ahead in other countries," that could not be more true. Not in our generation, and certainly not now. Government propaganda is not "truth," and studies comparing upward mobility from country to country are a bit more informative: Is America the "land of opportunity"? Not so much:

A new report from the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD) finds that social mobility between generations is dramatically lower in the U.S. than in many other developed countries. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_501788.html

“Contrary to the cherished beliefs of most Americans, the United States has less social mobility than any other developed country." http://cafephilos.wordpress.com/2010...ty-in-america/

"the odds of a poor person making it to the top (or even the solid middle) are just a smidge better than they are in England–a smidge. The US now has the second lowest level of what the wonks call “intergenerational income mobility” after England." http://mybarbararay.com/2010/10/18/t...-of-the-elite/

Unfortunately, Lottery Winners often think EVERYONE can win the lottery. Face it: you won the lottery, and you probably don't have the foggiest reason why. You will assume you are smarter or harder working or more innovative. What you actually are is LUCKIER, and that's one thing I will never have, nor do many others.

Last edited by NHartphotog; 12-26-2010 at 02:07 PM..
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,617 posts, read 19,240,718 times
Reputation: 6743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
While I understand your points about the entrance age at these facilities I fail to understand why you assume everyone has children. Are you on the Warped Tour?
I personally don't have children - but the majority of people in this country do. My personal experience (FWIW) is that in a large number of cases - children don't visit parents in these facilities because the children don't live close by. In some cases - this is the parents' fault (they refuse to move close to their children when they need help). And I'm sure that in some cases it's the children's fault. Robyn
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Old 12-26-2010, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,617 posts, read 19,240,718 times
Reputation: 6743
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
Only a lawyer, or a lottery winner, or those born rich, would think those born after 1960 had it "easy" and couldn't help but "win".

My husband and I went to college in NH, which has pretty much the highest tuition and the lowest tax support of any state. Tuition was very high even in-state, and our parents thought we should pay for it to appreciate it. We did. I later put myself through grad school while working full time during the day and going to school at night. I paid every penny of it. But by the time I earned it, the labor field was so bloated with over-educated people that it no longer was an advantage.

My spouse and I made several major mistakes, all of which were made from looking at history and seeing the only ways proven to get ahead. We both took jobs in large companies that had decent pay and pensions. Unfortunately, we stayed as the companies fell to Robber Baron CEOs and company profits were kept up by slashing employee payment and benefits. Even though we both had vested pensions, they were legally liquidated with the full approval of government via a scam called "change of control" that actually did not involve any change of control. The multi-billion dollar pension funds went straight to the CEO's already-filthy-rich pockets. Too late to start anywhere else, even if we thought those pensions wouldn't be stolen.

We both always worked 80 hours a week, and therefore starting a business in the "free time" wasn't an option. For much of the time we were in NH, which could kill the most lucrative franchises in the nation due to excessive business taxes and over-regulation and obscene property taxes. We no longer have a Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, KFC, Subway, or any other food chains except one BK. All we have left are banks and chain pharmacies.

We had paid off our 3rd house when the housing market collapsed. Since Florida had ZERO housing appreciation for the 18 years we'd lived there, while all the rest of the nation was racking up 10% and 20% gains every year, we really thought Florida was just catching up to housing prices everywhere. We didn't know of all the nationwide scams that had set us up to fail, since nobody was publicizing them. We already had stayed out of mutual funds and the stock market for decades, while others raked in huge yearly profits. We knew we couldn't ever retire with just savings, even if we sold the house, and so eventually invested money and then, of course, lost much of it.

As to the early Baby Boomers, I do agree that it was almost impossible not to do well. Our parents had only one worker (the man) in a regular job 40 hour a week job with little education, and they are all doing fine on fat pensions and Social Security.

After going to class reunion (High School 30 years), my spouse and I are actually still the most financially well-off. There were probably 60 couples there, from a place that was almost exclusively professional-middle class. Nobody had started successful businesses. Many were looking for new careers. When asked about retirement, the consensus was that it was never going to be possible.

If you really are doing fine, I guess you managed to avoid the housing crash, the workaholic job trap, mutual fund fees, stock market failure and charges, the continuing erosion of promised Social Security, the high taxes of a decent-paying job, the theft of your pension, and a million other traps. But you are NOT the rule. You are a very small minority.

Not to say the younger generation is going to have it any better. They won't. What I don't understand is that with a massive government that has totally taken over the economy, and brought it to collapse, why Americans continue to follow the same inevitable path downward to Third-World poverty and hopelessness.

As for it being "far more difficult to get ahead in other countries," that could not be more true. Not in our generation, and certainly not now. Government propaganda is not "truth," and studies comparing upward mobility from country to country are a bit more informative: Is America the "land of opportunity"? Not so much:

A new report from the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD) finds that social mobility between generations is dramatically lower in the U.S. than in many other developed countries. Social Immobility: Climbing The Economic Ladder Is Harder In The U.S. Than In Most European Countries

“Contrary to the cherished beliefs of most Americans, the United States has less social mobility than any other developed country." Some Problems with Upward Social Mobility in America « Café Philos: an internet café

"the odds of a poor person making it to the top (or even the solid middle) are just a smidge better than they are in England–a smidge. The US now has the second lowest level of what the wonks call “intergenerational income mobility” after England." Thinking about poverty and upward mobility from the other side: what launches people into the ranks of the elite? | Babs Ray

Unfortunately, Lottery Winners often think EVERYONE can win the lottery. Face it: you won the lottery, and you probably don't have the foggiest reason why. You will assume you are smarter or harder working or more innovative. What you actually are is LUCKIER, and that's one thing I will never have, nor do many others.
Before I say anything - I had a couple of questions about your message. You seem to be from New Hampshire. I don't understand the part about the house in Florida. FWIW - I've lived in Florida for almost 40 years - and the real estate market has in general gone up (although in a boom and bust kind of way - with some flat-lining in the middle - this is the third big real estate bust in Florida since I moved here).

I'm a little confused about your age and the age of your parents. Note that the earliest boomers were born in 1946 (my husband was born in 1945 - I think his generation is called the "Lost Generation"). So if your parents are "early boomers" - you can't be very old (unless they had you when they were very young). Probably under 50 - yes? I don't think people in their 40's or younger are necessarily "stuck" in bad situations for the rest of their lives - they're still relatively young.

What big companies did you/do you work for? If you're still employed at those places - I will understand if you don't want to answer that question.

I do have a couple of comments. I agree with you about New Hampshire - but not necessarily for the same reasons. My perception of New Hampshire is it's run as a "hobby farm" by liberal people from Massachusetts. And it can be run that way because it's so small (about the same number of people as we have in the JAX metro area). And a question. Does New Hampshire allow people who have second/vacation homes in New Hampshire to vote (some places do)? If so - that could be part of the problem.

Also - until fairly recently - it was possible to be a saver and earn a decent interest rate in safe savings vehicles (like CDs and government bonds). Did you ever try that?

Finally - I think all generations have problems. One big difference IMO is when the problems arise in terms of how old people are. My parents - children of the Depression and WWII - had it bad when they were young - but young people are resilient. They had plenty of time to get their lives back into gear when they were older - but not "old". Perhaps the people who have been hurt the most by recent economic events are those who are pretty old - have no time or ability to re-tool or re-group - or make up their losses. The kind of people who had enough to live ok in their retirements - but now have to move in with their children. Most of these people are 70+ - although some could be in their 60's. As for those who are younger - there is still time for the economy to recover and/or for people to make adjustments in their lives to prepare for when they get old. Robyn
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