Staying off the drugs (prescribed ones, that is) (separate, adult, benefit)

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

So if you and your brothers are so sure the docs screwed up - have you consulted a medical malpractice lawyer? Did your mother ever have a carotid ultrasound (maybe she was a "stoke" waiting to happen)?

FWIW - having watched 4 parents age - and 3 die - we've observed a big difference between "junior seniors" - 65 --> 80 - and "senior seniors" - those over 80. The sh** doesn't always hit the fan when someone passes that line over 80. But - for many people - it does. For my father (and his parents and his sibs - great genes in that family) - it started when he got to be about 90. Nothing very serious. Just deterioration in joints/spine (and associated pain) - ability to walk - etc. Heck - he has no padding on his fingers left - and can't button buttons. Robyn

I didn't say the doctor screwed up. I just said she did what any doctor has been trained to do. In any case, what would be the point of suing? It wouldn't make Mom better, would it? Is it right to "punish" someone for doing the best they know how to do?

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by songbird52

So what is your point? That we should eat unnatural food, since it is possible to be killed by natural food? Do you really think that's logical? In general, natural substances are better for us because our bodies evolved over long periods of time in a natural environment. Something cooked up in a test tube is unlikely to be good for us.

Of course not. You are accusing me of doing exactly what you appear to be doing: talking in absolutes. Eat natural food: live longer. Eat unnatural food: die early. Your posts come across to me that way and from some of the other responses, I suspect others see them that way too.

I will say again. It is good to eat healthy and exercise but those will not necessarily guarantee a long life.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by songbird52

So what is your point? That we should eat unnatural food, since it is possible to be killed by natural food? Do you really think that's logical? In general, natural substances are better for us because our bodies evolved over long periods of time in a natural environment. Something cooked up in a test tube is unlikely to be good for us.

Just curious. What kinds of foods do you think are natural - and which aren't?

There are potato chips that come in a can - but many restaurants make them from scratch. Perhaps one is "natural" and the other isn't - but I don't think either makes for particularly healthy eats. Robyn

[Ariadne22]

Originally Posted by Minervah

It is good to eat healthy and exercise but those will not necessarily guarantee a long life.

LOL - I'm not aiming for a long life. No, indeed. It's all about the quality - which to me is defined as good health. Having been seriously ill in my 30's for almost a year, out of desperation I took alternative, unorthodox measures to regain my health, because at that point my life was not worth living. I succeeded, but it was the hardest period of my life, bar none. Set me on an entirely different path regarding my health. So far, so good. No problems whatsoever since then, other than broken bones. But, since that time, longevity has never been anywhere on my list as I age. As a matter of fact, the idea of living to 90, 95 or older is a daunting, not to mention scary, thought.

Originally Posted by Robyn55

FWIW - having watched 4 parents age - and 3 die - we've observed a big difference between "junior seniors" - 65 --> 80 - and "senior seniors" - those over 80. The sh** doesn't always hit the fan when someone passes that line over 80. But - for many people - it does. For my father (and his parents and his sibs - great genes in that family) - it started when he got to be about 90. Nothing very serious. Just deterioration in joints/spine (and associated pain) - ability to walk - etc. Heck - he has no padding on his fingers left - and can't button buttons. Robyn

Much truth to this. My aunt and uncle (mother's sister/father's brother) both lived to be 91. He was good right up to the end. She, more of an invalid as she aged, and outlived him two years in a nursing home. However, based on their longevity, I think I will make it to 90 or thereabouts as well, barring something unforeseen. For them, the complaining on the aging process began when they turned 70. They felt weaker, had more aches and pains. My uncle, however, remained active and on his feet until 4 months before he died at age 91. Never could sit still, so the loss of muscle strength and inability to remain as active as he had when he was younger was difficult to accept. He never really gave in to it. He had a pacemaker 'installed', but never really recovered from that. The docs said his body was just worn out. However, he was driving and running up and down stairs almost to the end.

Originally Posted by Robyn55

Sometimes I think that good genes are more important than anything you do or don't do yourself. For example - my father's family has great genes for just about everything except orthopedic problems (chassis breaks down) associated with pretty old age. My mother's family has very bad genes for cardiac disease and Alzheimer's. My husband's mother's side of the family has a history of MS. My husband's father side of the family has a history of strokes and colon cancer.

I don't think our lot in life is all "luck of the draw" or healthy life-style habits. And it will be interesting to see what people think when genetic research results in a lot more data points. Robyn

When I went through my epiphany and did the alternative thing, I stayed at a naturopathic resort on the FL gulf coast. Owners of that facility, said genes were 80%. Not sure if I rank them that high, but they are very important. My half-sister has a different mother and has her mother's heart problems - even before the disaster with the blood pressure medication almost killing her. My half-sister has many more health issues than I. However, we are both nearsighted and have in common a right eye that is weaker than the left - inherited from our father. It isn't serious at all, but curious nonetheless. We have the same hair and eye color, walk exactly the same way, same build but she is 2 inches shorter than I am - her mother was shorter than mine. Also, her mother was 38 or 39 when she was born. I don't think the healthiest children are born to older parents. Just my own theory.

Originally Posted by Robyn55

And I have no idea what you mean when you say people die of "normal old age". I do not believe I have ever seen a death certificate stating that as a cause of death.

Actually, I think my uncle died at age 91 of normal old age. Per docs his systems began to shut down - plumb wore out - kidneys, heart. He had been running himself ragged every day for six months going back and forth to the nursing home to wait on my aunt. Time of his pacemaker implant to his death was four months. Hospitalized only a week at the very end. Other than dying in your sleep which happened to my grandfather, I call that death from old age. He never had an acute or chronic ailment of any kind. Prostate trouble he dealt with by taking Saw Palmetto. My aunt cooked everything from scratch from day one. No processed food in that house. Her weakness was bread and candy, so she got fat and developed diabetes. That does run in the family, her mother had it.

Originally Posted by Robyn55

A few weeks later - she and her husband threw a really big "good bye" party at a local country club for everyone they knew/had been kind to them during her illness. Then she stopped all treatment - went into hospice - and died. She wasn't even 50.

I will always miss Martha - but think she made the right decision for her - and her family. Her husband remarried within a few years - he had a new wife - and his kids had a new mom. Such is life. It isn't always fair. Robyn

For some odd reason, I am reminded of this - which I stumbled upon a few days ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/op...h&st=cse&scp=7

Originally Posted by songbird52

My point was that the body naturally TRIES to maintain its health. It is not like an automobile that starts wearing out the moment it is made. Living creatures DO repair themselves, as much as possible. and this happens automatically.

This I learned unequivocally 33 years ago. Illness occurs when the body is not at ease (or in balance) - thus the word - dis-ease. In most instances, the body is self-healing when it is supported in a way that is compatible with its own innate healing process.

[songbird52]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

Just curious. What kinds of foods do you think are natural - and which aren't?

There are potato chips that come in a can - but many restaurants make them from scratch. Perhaps one is "natural" and the other isn't - but I don't think either makes for particularly healthy eats. Robyn

Refined white sugar and refined white flour are not natural, and are leading causes of type 2 diabetes. If you want to know what is natural or not, think about whether our prehistoric ancestors were likely to have eaten it. Raw fruit and vegetables are natural (although probably have pesticides on or in them, unfortunately.

I do not try to follow a perfectly natural diet because I don't have time, and I am not convinced it's worth it anyway. Eating more vegetables means taking in more pesticides, so you really can't win.

I think we should try to be reasonable. Potato chips that are fried in fat are not the best choice, but potatoes that are not fried should be fine. Brown rice is better than white rice.

It's really not that hard to have a reasonable diet. I am more careful about exercise than diet though, because I think physical inactivity is a major cause of disease and disability in our society.

[Wilson513]

I was watching my new GP write out a prescription for blood pressure medication for me and thought, what the hell, I've been siting here for over an hour waiting to hear about some supposed bad blood test results and worring about it, and this guy waltzes in and wants to start off by taking my blood pressure and getting 150/92. I've never had high blood pressure before so I tell him. He rolls his eyes and says "everybody says they naver had high blood pressure before . . . "

So, after a lot of wrangling, I am going back in six months to see how my pressure is doing. Since then, I have been to CVS twice and bought my own Panasonic arm cuff PB machine and have checked it 30-50 times. Only one time did I get anything above 130 and that was after a walk up four flights of stairs. It has been reliably 125/78 since I refused the medication. Of course, once you start on the meds you are stuck for life.

So, I suggest a little more careful approach to these lifetime medications from my own experience.

[songbird52]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

I was watching my new GP write out a prescription for blood pressure medication for me and thought, what the hell, I've been siting here for over an hour waiting to hear about some supposed bad blood test results and worring about it, and this guy waltzes in and wants to start off by taking my blood pressure and getting 150/92. I've never had high blood pressure before so I tell him. He rolls his eyes and says "everybody says they naver had high blood pressure before . . . "

So, after a lot of wrangling, I am going back in six months to see how my pressure is doing. Since then, I have been to CVS twice and bought my own Panasonic arm cuff PB machine and have checked it 30-50 times. Only one time did I get anything above 130 and that was after a walk up four flights of stairs. It has been reliably 125/78 since I refused the medication. Of course, once you start on the meds you are stuck for life.

So, I suggest a little more careful approach to these lifetime medications from my own experience.

It is normal for blood pressure to be high when you're a little nervous, like in the doctor's office. Your doctor KNOWS that. They are not supposed to prescribe drugs based on only one reading. Unless, of course, the goal is to push drugs as much as possible.

Blood pressure medication has side effects that aren't so nice, such as depression. Oh, but then you could just take an anti-depressant. But those cause side effects also. No problem, there are always more new drugs coming out.

Once they get you on multiple drugs, the drug companies will love you, because you will be a good customer for the rest of your life.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by songbird52

It is normal for blood pressure to be high when you're a little nervous, like in the doctor's office. Your doctor KNOWS that. They are not supposed to prescribe drugs based on only one reading. Unless, of course, the goal is to push drugs as much as possible.

Blood pressure medication has side effects that aren't so nice, such as depression. Oh, but then you could just take an anti-depressant. But those cause side effects also. No problem, there are always more new drugs coming out.

Once they get you on multiple drugs, the drug companies will love you, because you will be a good customer for the rest of your life.

And, there other approaches to high blood pressure such as meditation, exercise, etc. I am not sure how effective diet is with cholesterol and mine is healthy off the charts (thanks to good genetics) but I am sure that some progress can be made for high cholesterol too.

[Curmudgeon]

With all this talk about the collusion and evils of the medical/pharmacology industry, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the number of diseases that have essentially become extinct because of the research and various serums developed. Think smallpox, tuberculosis, polio and many others. It's not all bad, folks.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

With all this talk about the collusion and evils of the medical/pharmacology industry, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the number of diseases that have essentially become extinct because of the research and various serums developed. Think smallpox, tuberculosis, polio and many others. It's not all bad, folks.

I'm totally supportive of the drug industry and conventional medicine. Unfortunately, everyone in the system has stopped looking at individuals and only look at a "public health" problem. Since the doctor doesn't have time to pester, handhold and keep track of 100-200 border line high blood pressure patients (most of whom lie to the doctor about their personal lives, diet and addictions), its easier to just put them all on meds and let the statistics average out. Sad that private medicine failed in this way.