Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The last part of the poster question is easy to answer..From my personal experience _ try not to bother the kids to much if I am in need..but when it is totally neccesary - I call one of the kids to deliever a bit of good or cash...It becomes a touchy issue...You can not push it or let yourself get spoiled...Sometimes my youngest son resents giving me anything - They forget that when they were very young I never denied them a thing. As we age the roles slowly flip..the parent becomes like the child - and the child takes on some of the responsiblity of a parent.
If I have to toss a little guilt in the face of one of the adult kids - I might say "You little ungrateful bastard...I stood on my feet for 18 hours a day - working twenty days straight at a time..just to make sure you did not have to do with out" - "and now you are going to gripe over twenty bucks because I spent it on wine?" - Okay - so I con my kids - better start practicing now - and on occassion - dither a little bit..
The Norquist goal is to make government small enough to drown in a bath tub. That includes Social security, medicare, medicaid, Federal and military pensions and healthcare. Face it, if you only a traitor would sell his soul to the Norquist
Delightful image! Not only that, we keep our own money.
Misinformed, ideological right-wing bunk! Just that simple.
Yes, it is as simple as the fact that I provide sources and statistics, whereas those who disagree with me both fail to address these figures, and do nothing but rant and insult, with NOTHING to back up their point of view except emotion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt Most seniors are not low income, because most seniors have SOME income other than Social Security.
38% of income... Means that 62% comes from elsewhere... aka 'most'.
If 'Most seniors' did not have any income except SS... this number would not exist.
The last part of the poster question is easy to answer..From my personal experience _ try not to bother the kids to much if I am in need..but when it is totally neccesary - I call one of the kids to deliever a bit of good or cash...It becomes a touchy issue...You can not push it or let yourself get spoiled...Sometimes my youngest son resents giving me anything - They forget that when they were very young I never denied them a thing. As we age the roles slowly flip..the parent becomes like the child - and the child takes on some of the responsiblity of a parent.
If I have to toss a little guilt in the face of one of the adult kids - I might say "You little ungrateful bastard...I stood on my feet for 18 hours a day - working twenty days straight at a time..just to make sure you did not have to do with out" - "and now you are going to gripe over twenty bucks because I spent it on wine?" - Okay - so I con my kids - better start practicing now - and on occassion - dither a little bit..
Sorry but I find that hard to swallow. My oldest son is easily a millionaire several times over. His mother, no longer my wife, thank God, has taken him for 10s of thousands of dollars over the years. The only time I ever discussed money with him was once when he brought his mother up and I smiled and said to him, "Well,m if it will give you any comfort, my wife and I will NOT ever permit ourselves to become a burden to you or to you brother or sisters.
I'd live on the street first. But perhaps that's just me! Some might call it "pride." I call it responsibility and independence.
Sorry but I find that hard to swallow...
I'd live on the street first. But perhaps that's just me! Some might call it "pride." I call it responsibility and independence.
Same here.
Cannot imagine myself calling either of my children and said, "Bring over twenty bucks, would you?" while throwing guilt at them.
Whatever hardship I went through to raise my children, I expected it all, since I was the one who made the choice to have them, and I was the one who decided to raise them a certain way. It was illogical to complain about working my derrière off to provide for them then, it would be much more illogical to ask them to pay me back for their clothes, their presents, and their education now.
Yes, it is as simple as the fact that I provide sources and statistics, whereas those who disagree with me both fail to address these figures, and do nothing but rant and insult, with NOTHING to back up their point of view except emotion.
Part of the problem is that despite your confident, arrogant bluster you don't seem to understand the statistics and the relevant economics at all. The number of workers per retiree means next to nothing, and is simply a prop used by right-wing hacks to try to alarm uninformed bystanders. Rather, the meaningful indicators are labor productivity, along with GDP per capita, which is rapidly becoming uncoupled from the number of workers (e.g., today's high unemployment at a time of high corporate earnings). Galbraith discussed this problem about 50 years ago in the The Affluent Society. It has to do with the reduced need for labor because of mechanization, computerization, process improvement, and off-shoring, If you don't understand this, think instead about the number of farmers needed to feed the population trending over the last 100 years. Look also at the total economic output generated per active domestic worker, trending over the last 100 years.
I would be deeply disappointed if I were poor and my children did not step up to the plate. Yes, I raised them to be independent, blah, blah blah, but more importantly, I raised them to be caring adults who understand that family comes first.
The reality is that poor seniors (the topic of this thread) are either supported by their children or other people's children.
There are one or two states that have begun enforcing their "destitute parent" statutes. Perhaps it's time for the others to follow.
Part of the problem is that despite your confident, arrogant bluster you don't seem to understand the statistics and the relevant economics at all.
To the contrary...
(And it's Funny that you STILL don't have ANYTHING backing up what you say...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes
The number of workers per retiree means next to nothing, and is simply a prop used by right-wing hacks to try to alarm uninformed bystanders. Rather, the meaningful indicators are labor productivity, along with GDP per capita, which is rapidly becoming uncoupled from the number of workers (e.g., today's high unemployment at a time of high corporate earnings).
So your saying that (less than) 2 people supporting 1 person is something OTHER THAN 2 people supporting 1 person?
Income may go up (Along with bumping people up to a higher tax bracket), but it is due to both productivity and inflation.
What's the number? The UDS has lost something like 97% of it's purchasing power since 1913... US Inflation Long Term Average
(I have no idea if this takes into account 'true inflation' since the 80's, of that 'false inflation' where no one buys food or energy.)
I'd say that offsets things quite well.
To say nothing about the way jobs are moving overseas, we are not producing anything...
At the end of the day, NOTHING you said in ANYWAY takes away form the number of 1:1.75
Please, feel free to respond when you have any factual data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes
Galbraith discussed this problem about 50 years ago in the The Affluent Society. It has to do with the reduced need for labor because of mechanization, computerization, process improvement, and off-shoring, If you don't understand this, think instead about the number of farmers needed to feed the population trending over the last 100 years. Look also at the total economic output generated per active domestic worker, trending over the last 100 years.
less than a 1:2 ratio... is a less than 1:2 ratio.
I would be deeply disappointed if I were poor and my children did not step up to the plate. Yes, I raised them to be independent, blah, blah blah, but more importantly, I raised them to be caring adults who understand that family comes first.
The reality is that poor seniors (the topic of this thread) are either supported by their children or other people's children.
There are one or two states that have begun enforcing their "destitute parent" statutes. Perhaps it's time for the others to follow.
Lenora, you bring up an interesting point about the "destitute parent" laws. Your mention of them piqued my curiosity to the extent that I just started a new thread here in the Retirement Forum about these laws, for one reason not to hijack this thread and for another reason to encourage a full discussion of that topic in its own right.
You seem to be knowledgeable about these laws, and I hope you will see fit to contribute that knowledge to the new thread.
I would be deeply disappointed if I were poor and my children did not step up to the plate. Yes, I raised them to be independent, blah, blah blah, but more importantly, I raised them to be caring adults who understand that family comes first.
The reality is that poor seniors (the topic of this thread) are either supported by their children or other people's children.
There are one or two states that have begun enforcing their "destitute parent" statutes. Perhaps it's time for the others to follow.
I agree fully. Family is family, and it goes all ways...parent to kids, kids to parents, sibling to sibling. Depending on circumstances, I might stop there, before I get to the cousin level. But if I had a destitute aunt or uncle, I would not hesitate to bring that person into my home if need be. Neither would I turn my back on one of my kids, even one of my nieces or nephews (they are all in very fine shape, but who knows what the future holds). Oh heck, I'd include a cousin (which I have no more of ). Depending on the circumstances, I might extend my help outside my immediate family. Although I am very tight fisted with money, I have no need to hoard my security for myself. And when it comes to my kids, if I ever needed help, it would be difficult to ask but I think I would if the need were dire. Pride goeth before a fall (this can be interpreted in more than one way).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"Destitute parent" laws
). Depending on the circumstances, I might extend my help outside my immediate family. Although I am very tight fisted with money, I have no need to hoard my security for myself. And when it comes to my kids, if I ever needed help, it would be difficult to ask but I think I would if the need were dire. Pride goeth before a fall (this can be interpreted in more than one way).
