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Old 02-19-2012, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 20,845,729 times
Reputation: 32530

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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
The relationship of parent child is not what it used to be. All I hear of is heart ache stories filled with disappointment and dismay of children mistreating senior parents......
Today's children feel no obligation to their parents. Most tend to exploit them seeking only to maximize their bounty when the parent passes.
No reason to doubt the examples you gave (which I did not quote), and indeed, it's sad to hear of elders taken advantage of or abused. However, your description of how things are is not universally true. The other side of the coin is adult children who feel they must force some kind of change, not for any advantage of their own, but out of compassion for the parent. Suppose an aging parent is no longer able to prepare food consistently and his/her nutritional needs are not being met? And suppose that parent has resisted all suggestions, such as Meals on Wheels? If the child truly cares for that parent's welfare, I just can't imagine doing nothing and letting the parent waste away from lack of food (even though food is in the house). If the child (or children) live(s) out of state, then they cannot personally come prepare food and share meals with the parent. And yes, there are still children who have the genuine best interests of their parents at heart, despite the existence of the many self-centered jerks that you wrote of.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:04 AM
 
Location: Ohio
15,701 posts, read 16,969,967 times
Reputation: 22089
I was lucky, I found a neighbor woman who brought my father breakfast, left him something for lunch....and then came back again at dinnertime with another meal. She just made extra at home and basically brought him a plate.

She also made sure he took his pills and did light cleaning. I paid her by the week.

Eventually, my Dad couldn't stay home alone any longer. Again, luckily, I found an elderly woman who took him into her home to care for him.

He was there several years and she became like famiy to me since I spent a lot of time there visiting my father, even when he no longer knew who I was. So, I would sit and talk to her for hours. She almost became like a second mother to me.

Then, he started to get violent, he punched her in the chest one day.....HARD....that is when I had to put him in a nursing home....he only lasted there six months before he died. Six months of pure hell. The only saving grace was that they had to keep him heavily sedated to control him..... he was in advanced dementia.....so I pray he didn't realize what was happening. It was awful.

If I had my way, I would have been allowed to have had him put to sleep at that point. Mind you, many homes would not even take him because he was violent. He was like a wild animal. He couldn't talk, couldn't reason.....he would try to bite {he still had his teeth too} and hurt anyone who came near him. It was amazing how strong he was at 81. When I looked at what he had become, and remembered what a proud man he once was, I know he would have wanted that too.....I know it with every ounce of my being. It haunts me to this day.

My Dad suffered a severe skull fracture in WWII, he started having seizures when he was 48 and was forced to retire....he had to take several meds to control the seizures. His identical twin lived to 92 and was totally competent when he died, so we think what happened to my Dad wasn't actually Altzheimers, but dementia caused by the brain damage he had suffered.

I had to deal with all of this all by myself, my brother lived in Florida and didn't help at all. I worked full time, had my own home and several pets to care for, including my father's dog. I also took care of his empty home for years, until my brother moved back to Ohio and moved into it. You just have to do the best you can.....and it can be heartbreaking.

Several years after my father died, I found myself helping to take care of Esther, the woman Dad had lived with....I would go and get her groceries, visit her, etc. After about two years she died too. She died of cancer, she was 78. She was a wonderful woman and I miss her.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:26 AM
 
Location: SW US
2,838 posts, read 3,166,573 times
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i haven't read all the news on this case, but it's quite possible that the elderly woman refused to have anyone come into her house to care for her.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Ontario, NY
3,511 posts, read 7,747,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxBarb View Post
Not sure we should judge this son so harshly.
I went through the same thing with my Mom who stayed in her home for 60 years. She was NOT going to leave it for anything. At 101, the IL Dept of Aging told me I had to do something to get her either a live in or full time care. It was a good thing. I was able to convince her to move, because if not, I was going to suffer the consequences. At 98 this lady might be ok for a while, but its not going to last. The son is thinking ahead. Something I did not do. Our move for Mom was done in 3 short days. Very hard on her. Thankfully she is adjusting to assisted living and I can relax (a little.)
So at what age do people no longer have any rights? I just live to know. Oh she's 98, she can't possible make her own informed decisions, after all all old people are senile right? The way I see it, Mom GAVE her son the house, he didn't buy it off of her. He doesn't even see his mom that often, bet he wakes up every day praying his mom would up and die so he can cash in on the house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texasfirewheel View Post
I wonder why both brothers weren't made trustees of the original trust, with a provision that neither could act independently. That would have prevented Peter from doing what he did. However, the deed into the original trust may have been made many years ago and perhaps Peter had more emotional control over this mother at that time.
Some parents sometimes split up assets before they die to prevent a messy family feud. Who can say what happened, maybe the other brother got a big lump of cash or other investments. Or as you suggest, he saw her every day and showed her how much more he loves her then his younger brother that doesn't see her as often. Then once the deed transfer is complete, oh sorry mom don't have time for you anymore.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:00 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,340,931 times
Reputation: 29336
Default Update - No Eviction

Son backs down.

Son Won't Evict 98-year-old Mom From Connecticut Home | Fox News
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
5,294 posts, read 5,965,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Thanks for the update.

I think this says it all, "Peter Kantorowski believed the house should be sold, D'Agosto said, contending the family couldn't afford the home with high taxes."
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:56 AM
 
Location: Ohio
15,701 posts, read 16,969,967 times
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And the plot thickens...............

After Backlash, Man Evicting 98-Year-Old Mother Relents | AOL Real Estate

Quote:
The TV station adds that the feud between Kantorowski and his brother Jack, who also lives in the home with their mother, played heavily in the decision to evict her, as his brother was continually "taking advantage of her," according to Kantorowski.

Jack Kantorowski's son defended his uncle's actions, saying that the intent of the eviction notice was to get his father, and not his grandmother, out of the house. ("His drinking... is out of control," Peter Kantorowski alleges of his brother.)

Looks like good old Mom was just going to be collateral damage. Too bad for her.

Sounds like he hates his brother more than he loves his Mom, if you ask me.

BTW.....if you watch the clip, looks like Mom gets around pretty good.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 21,913,861 times
Reputation: 15773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
No reason to doubt the examples you gave (which I did not quote), and indeed, it's sad to hear of elders taken advantage of or abused. However, your description of how things are is not universally true. The other side of the coin is adult children who feel they must force some kind of change, not for any advantage of their own, but out of compassion for the parent. Suppose an aging parent is no longer able to prepare food consistently and his/her nutritional needs are not being met? And suppose that parent has resisted all suggestions, such as Meals on Wheels? If the child truly cares for that parent's welfare, I just can't imagine doing nothing and letting the parent waste away from lack of food (even though food is in the house). If the child (or children) live(s) out of state, then they cannot personally come prepare food and share meals with the parent. And yes, there are still children who have the genuine best interests of their parents at heart, despite the existence of the many self-centered jerks that you wrote of.
Thanks for saying this. Case in point, our late mother and her four daughters. At the age of 90 and living alone, she was in real danger of everything. She fell asleep more than once with the stove on cooking something, while dozing she fell from a lightweight chair and severely gashed her arm on a TV tray, and nearly set herself on fire once while at the stove wearing a highly flammable nightgown. And the time she dragged her trash barrels to the curb in the middle of an ice storm, slipped on the sidewalk and lay there for who knows how long while cars passed on the street and did not stop (I forget how she got up). It was one nightmare after another. She refused to have a cell phone or one of those alert devices on her. And she barred us from entering her house (locking the inner storm doors) when she suspected we were there to take her away. Not to mention the times she got so ill with the flu that she would stay in bed for weeks, not answering the phone (refusing doctors to the end).

I could go on and on, but the short of it is that we had contacted Elders at Risk Services and were told WE could be charged with neglect if we didn't do something. Then we got tough and forced her to sell her house, telling her we would no longer do her shopping or anything else unless she got out of that big house. Even after she moved (to a small house on my sister's street), she was at risk for the same things as before. We were once again going to get outside help when she obliged us and died, at home, while doing something. I have little sympathy for self centered elders who put themselves at risk and make everyone around them miserable.

In hindsight, I should have moved away to preserve my sanity (she was one nasty character on top of all this, often screaming and having unprovoked tantrums), but I didn't do so because I knew I would be leaving my sister alone with the situation.

Last edited by RiverBird; 03-03-2012 at 06:28 AM..
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
5,294 posts, read 5,965,740 times
Reputation: 10833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
No reason to doubt the examples you gave (which I did not quote), and indeed, it's sad to hear of elders taken advantage of or abused. However, your description of how things are is not universally true. The other side of the coin is adult children who feel they must force some kind of change, not for any advantage of their own, but out of compassion for the parent. Suppose an aging parent is no longer able to prepare food consistently and his/her nutritional needs are not being met? And suppose that parent has resisted all suggestions, such as Meals on Wheels? If the child truly cares for that parent's welfare, I just can't imagine doing nothing and letting the parent waste away from lack of food (even though food is in the house). If the child (or children) live(s) out of state, then they cannot personally come prepare food and share meals with the parent. And yes, there are still children who have the genuine best interests of their parents at heart, despite the existence of the many self-centered jerks that you wrote of.
At what age, exactly, does an adult lose his or her right to make "bad" choices? What if the elderly parent would rather "waste away" than leave his or her cherished home? Is that a bad decision? Why? Consider the number of C-D posters who have repeatedly stated they would rather kill themselves than go into a facility.

From the legal perspective, of course, an adult is free to make poor decisions, as long as the adult is competent. This is why the judicial system (at least in my state) requires the child to seek guardianship and why the court appoints an attorney to represent the parent. Too many children think they know what is "best" for Mom or Dad.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 21,913,861 times
Reputation: 15773
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
At what age, exactly, does an adult lose his or her right to make "bad" choices? What if the elderly parent would rather "waste away" than leave his or her cherished home? Is that a bad decision? Why? Consider the number of C-D posters who have repeatedly stated they would rather kill themselves than go into a facility.

From the legal perspective, of course, an adult is free to make poor decisions, as long as the adult is competent. This is why the judicial system (at least in my state) requires the child to seek guardianship and why the court appoints an attorney to represent the parent. Too many children think they know what is "best" for Mom or Dad.
The Elders at Risk program here has a list of basic questions we had to answer before getting a social worker involved. Believe me, we would rather have left our mother alone, but it was clearly not safe for her to live alone once she got to around 90. Questions included what time she got up, did she dress herself, did she groom herself, did she make her meals on reasonable time, did she pay her bills, etc. Well a lot of these questions leave a lot of room for interpretation. She apparently slept till 11 am, would stay in her flammable housecoat more and more all day, she would look disheveled when she greeted us at the door, she was IOP severely depressed, etc. But she was never disoriented, and she balanced her checkbook and paid her bills and cooked her own meals.

The fire hazard at the stove was the biggest problem. She would cook in her flammable nightgown and being short would have to reach over the front burners to the back burners. She left the stove on a number of times while she dozed upright in the livingroom. She fell outdoors (the trash scenario) and could have frozen and died out there on the sidewalk.

When is risk a serious threat? When all these things start to happen more and more and esp if there's no one around to help, or if the elder adamantly refuses any help (our mother), and/or if there's unreasonable resistance to basic safety measures. Was she incompetent? I doubt it. She was so clever that if she had to testify on behalf of herself in a custodial suit she would have made us, her daughters, look like jerks. We were overly concerned for her, perhaps, but there were signs of self neglect, and we were clearly told by social services that any proof of neglect could have US arrested for it. That's why we hesitated to bring in those dreaded social workers, and tried to, but of course mother fooled them convincing them she was just fine and there "must have been some mistake" on her daughters' part.

I do not envy anyone who has to go through this with an elderly parent. This situation, spanning 15 years or more, took years off my life. I'm still recovering from it.
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