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You have a brother and sister-in-law living in Tennessee. Are they Southern Baptists?
Seriously, Knoxgarden mentioned that there were Wiccans freely worshiping in Knoxville. I'm guessing those crazy Lutherans would be welcomed, as well.
Lol...I've only visited TN 3 times so far & tried to get as in depth as possible in each short visit, but I do think one does not have to be of any particular religion to feel welcome. I have heard similar claims about NC & the south in general; that you have to be a right wing bible thumper to fit in. I just don't see that. Again, different strokes for different folks, and only you can know what feels right for you. One of the things I really like about NC is there is diversity in both political and religious beliefs. Especially in the area of the research triangle - lots of colleges & universities. Also the western region around Asheville (Ashville?) has a bit of a hippy vibe. Since I think I'm neither right or left, & I tend to see religion as "however you get there, God is cool with it"....I think NC has a lot to offer me.
WA has Similar costs / climate and options. and NO STATE INCOME TAX! (that will save you some time and $$)
WA towns (affordable, west side, services) ... Vancouver, Woodland, Chehalis, Kelso, Olympia, Burlington, Mt Vernon, Lynden, Ferndale, Bremerton, Port Angeles
OR towns (affordable, west side (warmer climate), services)
Medford, Grants Pass, Roseburg, Sutherlin, Cottage Grove, McMinnville, Dallas, St Helens.
Check which area is best for you and needed services. Oregon has Terrible state fiscal policy, so I would not depend on state aid.
Firstly we are RETIRING - hence no income from employment. I have only SS - so no income tax at all. Other types of retirement are taxed by Oregon, but at much lower rates than regular income.
Washington may have no income tax, but Oregon has no sales tax. Also, Washington charges a 1.28% tax on the sale of homes. Uncool! Yearly property taxes are in the same ballpark as Oregon - so they get you coming AND going. What's more, anyone selling a house is going to want to recoup that loss - each time a house is sold, an amount roughly equivalent to that sales tax is going to be added to the asking price. Consider it built-in inflation, on top of normal inflation.
Washington state is, in fact, colder than any part of Oregon I've been looking at. Not Dakotas cold - but cold enough that it matters to me. And the further north you get, the more wintry it gets.
Medford, OR has banned medical marijuana dispensaries. You can probably guess from that how likely they are to allow sales of recreational pot. Ditto Dallas - the closest dispensaries are in the middle of Salem, about 30 mins away. Sutherlin also has banned medical marijuana dispensaries; you have to drive to Roseburg. Both Saint Helens and Columbia City have also banned dispensaries.
My feeling is that any place that has banned dispensaries is not going to be friendly towards either medical or recreational users of marijuana.
And lest we think WA state is somehow superior in this regard - despite the fact that recreational marijuana has been technically legal for 2 or 3 years now, there are still only 24 dispensaries in the entire state of the over 300 allowed by law - and only one to serve Seattle itself, probably the largest concentration of budding pot users in the state (no pun intended).
McMinnville OR is not affordable. Cottage Grove is at the high end of affordable, but its a small town with few properties listed at any given time. I LIKE Cottage Grove; but I probably won't end up there because it is a higher cost to buy a house there.
Vancouver WA, just across the river from Portland, is not "affordable". Some of the other places you mention might be, under some circumstances; but the issue of legal pot, whether for recreational or medicinal use, puts Oregon squarely front and center.
WA is way behind OR on pot when you look at the whole picture.
Which I will explain in another post, cuz it's really really long.
WA is way behind OR on pot when you look at the whole picture.
AKA, WHY I PREFER OREGON OVER WASHINGTON as a place to which to retire, with my disabilities, pain, and need for access to medical marijuana
Yeah, pot is legal in Washington state - but its also stupid expensive, and legal dispensaries are few and far between. There was ONE in Seattle this past summer when I checked - ONE for the entire city of Seattle. Many other counties and municipalities have banned dispensaries, far more than in Oregon. Even medical marijuana is stupid expensive in Washington state, and hard to find if you're not in a major (and hence high cost of living) population center.
Cost of pot
in Washington state is almost double what it is in Oregon
WA taxes marijuana at EVERY point in the chain of sale, at a rate of 25% - that's the grower, processor, retailer AND the ultimate consumer.
$100 of marijuana is sold to the processor, the excise tax is applied and it costs the processor $125.
$125 worth of processed marijuana is sold to the retailer, with the excise tax this is now $156.25 (we are ignoring the added expense of the processors markup to cover expenses and profit)
$156.25 worth of marijuana is sold to the consumer and the excise tax is AGAIN applied (again ignoring retailer markup for expenses and profit) - now it costs $195.31
IN ADDITION, sales tax is applied at the point of consumer purchase - I'm not sure if the rest of the folks who have handled the stuff are also required to pay sales taxes. But the excise taxes ALONE - not counting profit markups - doubles the cost of the product. It is worse than that once you account for profit markup.
Oregon is about 50% more than it runs in Colorado.
Oregon levies the 25% excise tax only on the grower.
There are no sales taxes in Oregon
It is unclear to me whether medical marijuana is exempt from the excise taxes in either state. It seems to me it has been exempt from at least some of it in WA, which, if that is the case, would explain why WA wants to do away with the medical marijuana program altogether.
Availability for legal purchase
WA state has a limit of 334 dispensaries statewide.
However, to date, after years of legality, there are only 24 that have actually been allowed to open.
Many municipalities and counties have banned dispensaries.
It is unclear that the state has any interest in addressing the issue of local bans, and they are moving very slowly to grant licenses even in areas where dispensaries have not been banned and, in point of fact, are actually in high demand.
The lack of access to legal sources of marijuana will continue to push people to buy it from illegal sources.
OR has NO LIMITS on the # of dispensaries that will be allowed to open.
Technically the law does not allow local entities to outright ban dispensaries, but an Oregon court has ruled otherwise, resulting in de facto bans by several localities. These include Medford, Saint Helens, Columbia City, Sutherlin, Cave Junction, Hermiston, Jacksonville, Oakridge and Tualatin. There are probably others, mostly among the many small towns in Oregon.
So - just being legal does not mean you will have access to legally buying it anywhere in the state. I feel this is short-sighted since it will drive people who don't want to or can't grow their own to continue to obtain marijuana from illegal sources.
Can you grow recreational pot
WA state - NO
OR - up to 4 mature plants
Can you grow Medical Marijuana
WA state - up to 15 plants, unless and until the medical marijuana program is eliminated, which is what the state wants to do. Then it will be NO plants.
OR allows 24 plants, 6 of which may be mature at any given time, for medical users.
Can you grow outdoors
In Oregon, you may grow your plants outdoors as long as it is out of sight. Since some cannabis plants can get 6 or 8 feet tall, I'm not sure exactly how one does that, but its the thought that counts I guess.
WA - I don't think so, but I can't find a definitive answer.
Personally I would only consider this if I had a yard large enough to keep the grow well away from property lines, and if no houses in the area had 2nd story line of sight into my yard, AND if my entire back yard was surrounded by a privacy fence, as well as additional fencing right around the grow to obscure it further. Even then I would worry about the odor - for fear of losing my grow to a sneak-thief. Anyway.
Can you legally buy plants/seeds
WA state - NO
OR - yes, after July 1, 2015 - I think medical marijuana patients can do that now, but recreational users must wait until the law kicks in.
How much can you have in your possession
WA state - 1 oz total, whether in their possession or stored in the home, if you are a recreational user; until they eliminate the medical marijuana program, medical users may have 1 oz on you, or up to 24 oz at home.
OR - recreational users may have up to 8 oz at home, but only 1 oz at a time in their possession in public. Medical Marijuana patients may have up to 24 oz in the home.
What about DUI?
WA - has declared that anyone with 5 ng/mL (that's nanograms per milliter, a tiny tiny amount) of THC in the blood stream is automatically assumed to be inebriated - DESPITE the fact that it is well known that this is indicative only of use within the last 30 days, and does not prove actual inebriation. Medical marijuana users will always fail this test, and recreational users are likely to fail it as well if they have indulged in the last few days or even weeks. This is a risk.
OR - has not set a blood amount and is studying the issue. I don't think this lets anyone off the hook though; I think they are continuing to enforce existing laws regarding DUI. I think a driver in OR is still at risk for being tagged with an unearned DUI due to blood tests that rely on the presence of metabolites that do not indicate inebriation, but only use. But at least they are seriously trying to find a solution.
Hopefully the problem of DUIs might be ameliorated by the conditions under which such testing can be required. However, if there is any leeway for law enforcement there at all, I would be concerned about at least some members of law enforcement pushing the issue and testing people in the absence of valid cause, just to try to catch people out on this. ESPECIALLY in areas where dispensaries have been banned - but not only in such places. And frankly - some of us have slurred speech and shaky hands ALL THE TIME. That puts us at risk regardless of whether or not Johnny Gendarme is out to get us.
FEES or licensure for users
OR - for medical marijuana, the card is $200, $250 if you are going to designate a grower. If your cards is lost, stolen, or damaged - another $100 to get a new card. $175 to $300 for the doctor's or clinic visit to get the "recommendation". This is a yearly fee, and all the paperwork has to be done anew each year. Total cost: $375 to $500 per year to grow your own, assuming you never lose or damage your card. $425 to $550 if you need someone else to grow for you.
WA - THERE ARE NO FEES for medical marijuana in the state of Washington. However
it wouldn't take too many purchases @double the cost of the same stuff in OR before you make up the expense of the OMMP card in OR.
WA wants to eliminate the medical marijuana program altogether. Then whether or not they charged a fee for the card becomes a moot point.
Can I have my medication delivered
WA - NO
OR - YES.
Given that many of us who use medical marijuana have some degree of disability, that's pretty counterproductive. Some of us don't even have driver's licenses. Some of us will never have driver's licenses again. Among those who have driver's licenses, many are often too ill to drive regardless (think cancer patients on chemo).
Not allowing a delivery service for medical marijuana patients is harsh; may I say, heinous, even.
Overall, OREGON is the clear winner here. I still think CO has this handled the best, but Oregon is at least in the running.
At least one property I've looked at has a "greenhouse" - which suspiciously has no windows or skylights. I'm thinking somebody jumped the gun on the recreational pot thing, LOL!
That said - moving to a pot-legal state without a financial plan and method of support is dumb. People with no independent income, no particular skills or no skills that are in demand, and who will need to rent are most at risk to end up jobless, homeless, and with no way to get home.
And just because it is legal, you can still be fired for having used it; you can still lose your driver's license to a DUI, even if you weren't actually inebriated at the time (because the tests are for metabolites, and the metabolites will be present even if you haven't smoked for days), and landlords can still evict you if they find out you are using it, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CARD.
The situation for people who have to hold down a job and who have to rent is tenuous, regardless of the legality.
Just sayin'.
Last edited by NeonGecko; 02-07-2015 at 10:49 AM..
Reason: Corrected a mis-statement
So, NeonGecko, maybe I missed it in your torrent of words, but why is pot so important to you? I am 70, have never tried it, and fail to see how it could improve my life. Life gives us plenty of natural highs - the pride of achievement, the joy of helping others, the gratification of being praised by others, the joy of good literature, and on and on.
So, NeonGecko, maybe I missed it in your torrent of words, but why is pot so important to you? I am 70, have never tried it, and fail to see how it could improve my life. Life gives us plenty of natural highs - the pride of achievement, the joy of helping others, the gratification of being praised by others, the joy of good literature, and on and on.
You missed this very valid reason:
Quote:
NeonGecko: And legal pot. Which means I would no longer have that as a reason to schlep myself to a doc to get my pain treated, nor have to worry about having to scare up a doc who will prescribe it, nor come up with the extra cash to pay out of pocket, doctors visits for said purpose not being on Medicare's list of approved services.
I get the impression that you think my "torrent of words" was an attempt to justify marijuana use; it was not. I feel that requires no justification, whether it is being used medicinally or recreationally.
I was simply comparing the situation for marijuana use between the bordering states of WA and OR, as another poster had implied that WA has this handled better than OR, when this is not the case. There are undoubtedly valid reasons and advantages for some people to choose WA over OR, but its not because the medical marijuana situation is being better handled there - or the legal recreational situation, either.
That information is to help others make an informed decision between the two states, where medical (or other) marijuana is a concern.
As for why I feel it is important - I don't need to justify this but I will:
Because I have significant intractable pain and cannot take things like Oxycodone or other "traditional" pain killers.
I am largely homebound and isolated; life does NOT give me "plenty of natural highs" (and I contend that a marijuana high IS a natural high anyway).
I am no longer able to be of much help to others, and when I was, I did not expect or seek their approbation to improve my mood.
It may be "gratifying" to be praised by others, but I have never sought nor particularly enjoyed that sort of thing either - it strikes me as self-centered and egotistical to do so, in fact.
And while I love a good book, reading does little to reduce my pain.
Besides which, all euphemisms about the joys of simple existence aside, I support legalization for recreational purposes for everyone.
Seriously, alcohol is legal - but not pot. Oxycodone for pain is legal despite its high propensity for addiction and unpleasant side effects; but marijuana for the same purpose is somehow an excuse to "get high". (Ask Rush Limbaugh about getting high on oxycodone, LOL!)
Why do you feel it necessary to question and judge the particular recreational pursuits (let alone medical needs) of total strangers?
Last edited by NeonGecko; 02-07-2015 at 11:33 AM..
Reason: corrected a word
Why do you feel it necessary to question and judge the particular recreational pursuits (let alone medical needs) of total strangers?
I was curious why you rather obviously felt pot was such an important subject. Apparently I did miss that explanation, which sometimes happens with long posts. Why do you say I felt it "necessary"? I was curious so I asked - I never did think it was "necessary" to satisfy my curiosity. The real question is why you are so touchy and defensive. You could have just said something like this:
"You did miss the part of my post where I explained I have serious pain issues best addressed by the use of pot."
That one sentence would have been a full and complete answer to my question. There is a lot to be said for directness and brevity.
I was curious why you rather obviously felt pot was such an important subject. Apparently I did miss that explanation, which sometimes happens with long posts. Why do you say I felt it "necessary"? I was curious so I asked - I never did think it was "necessary" to satisfy my curiosity. The real question is why you are so touchy and defensive. You could have just said something like this:
"You did miss the part of my post where I explained I have serious pain issues best addressed by the use of pot."
That one sentence would have been a full and complete answer to my question. There is a lot to be said for directness and brevity.
Yes, well I don't feel the need to cut informative posts to meet your aesthetic requirements for brevity. In addition, the explanation - which you are not owed anyway - was in a previous post which was the soul of brevity.
Likewise, you could merely have asked why I felt it was important instead of loading up your query with your value judgments about "natural highs" etc. You didn't. You chose to make a value judgment - several actually.
Hopefully you have a better understanding of the issues involved, and I hope anyone on the brink of making a choice between OR and WA is helped by the breakdown of the differences between the two states - first as regards differing costs and tax structures, and secondly in regard to the differences in how legal marijuana, both recreational and medicinal, are handled on each side of the state line.
These issues are important to many, especially those of us who are disabled.
Of course there is diversity! And you are talking about Knoxville and Nashville, which is very different from a more rural life where there is no work for young people and the population is aging and not renewed by an influx of tourists.
Tennessee, in general, becomes more cosmopolitan each day. We are on the retirement forum, so I was speaking more or less about my peers and older.
There are many denominations besides the Baptists. My small town also has an active group of wiccans and the majority of the meetup groups here are anti religion groups.
It bothers me that we have a nativity scene on the courthouse grounds, but after my first year living here, I know not to mention it. That, and a lot of other things political and otherwise.
If you really want to get on the wrong side of the fence, try talking about the civil war
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and the majority of the meetup groups here are anti religion groups. 