Retirees who are estranged from their adult children (crying, retired, friends)
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We had a friend who was similar to your son. butch was bi-polar with delussions and there were never any meds that really helped him,so,unfortunately, he did self-medicate with street drugs. Butchs' mother loved him so much and I do not know how many times she cried in my arms. But Butch did not know where she lived or her phone number because she was afraid of him. If Butch needed to give a message to his mother we would give it, and if she had a message, we would give it to him. And they both loved each others but his mothers love for him was as fierce as any love I have seen. Butchs'mother and someof his siblings were was also bi-polar, but meds kept them pretty stable. But not Butch. she sometimes blames herself, and she shouldn't. I think it's something ingrained in a mothers heart that makes her believe that somehow she really can keep the bogey man away from her children. So when she can't, she erroneously blames herself. I love you Meo.
I thank you, Vicky. I wish I had a person to go to after our estrangement. But, I didn't. Thank you for being available to your friend.
I don't know what to say anymore. This every night listening to my ex-daughter in law is draining me. I am just not going to answer the phone tonight.
I didn't feel as guilty as I could because once he was diagnosed, I read everything I could about bipolar illness & became involved with the family group at the hospital & took Family to Family classes. So I know I did what I could. The hospital even asked me to attend the meetings after my son was discharged because I'd studied it so much & could answer the families questions in a non-academic manner. And, yes, I did it for a long time.
It wasn't until I saw his friend request that I really fell apart.
Meo I just feel for you. I read that you said you saw a friend request from him. I know how haunting that must be for you; it can also be somewhat comforting to know that at that moment the request was sent, that there was hope.
So sorry for all you are experiencing and have experienced. It sounds like you have some good support in place . I wish you strength (which you clearly have.)
Thinking of you today Meo. I know you are in a lot of pain right now. Remember you have so many friends here who care about you and pray for you. I've read a lot of your postings and I know life hasn't been kind to you. You are a very strong woman and you will get through this. Please remember to always be kind to yourself. We sometimes forget to do that in our hard times.
NYgal, you are correct that I've had challenges, but, I must also add that there are times I've felt so blessed & been surrounded by such love that it took my breath away. I wouldn't have exchanged my life for anyone else's.
Knowing that you helped feed & clothe a person in need, supplying a way for people to keep their dignity, helping people gain knowledge as to how to get out of poverty. These things are priceless & will be with me for all time.
My life with & without my son has been extremely difficult, but the Lord never gives us more than we can handle. I'm just waiting on Him right now. He has always come through in my life.
I just have to add that He is very strong right now. Usually that would mean a new 'adventure' but now I think it means He is just surrounding me with compassion and love.
Family dynamics are something someone from the outside cannot understand and therefore should not pronounce general judgments on. As for your final sentence, above, in several (not "many") cases I've seen adult kids convincing their sibling(s) to turn away from their parents. Sometimes, it doesn't take much to blow things out of proportion. Note that in my previous posts I stand by parents in the absence of actual (not perceived) abuses. But someone on the outside can never know what is perceived and what is actual, and often there's a fine line between them, or a sliding continuum that is confusing.
Several, many, semantics...
That's interesting you say that because I have known the opposite to be true. Abusive parents can treat each child differently. I've seen kids who were treated like the golden child and their sibling(s) like scapegoats. They'd each tell you completely different childhoods. And when the scapegoat finally has had enough, the golden child usually tries to bring them in line because they don't want to become the new scapegoat. IMO It rarely happens someone stops speaking to a parent because someone told them to stop, that basically is insulting them saying they are too stupid to make up their own minds. When it comes to real or perceived abuses, to the children who are abused, there are no perceived abuses, they were there.
BTW what exactly is "blowing things out of proportion?" Sounds like victim-shaming to me. There is no fine-line, if you wrong someone you own up to it, not say they are blowing it out of proportion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverBird
The few parents I know who have children who cut them out have beat their heads against the wall, blaming themselves (what did we do??). They seem to be introspective and constantly berating themselves for the estrangement. More parents than not, I would imagine, suffer from guilt about their inadequacies and mistakes.
There is a difference between being introspective and playing the martyr. One goes to therapy to dig deep to understand what they did wrong, find where they didn't listen, etc, and reaches out to their children in a way that says "when I did x, y, and z to you, I was wrong, I'm sorry that my actions were hurtful, and if you never want to speak to me again I understand, but just know that I am truly sorry for x, y, and z (YES LIST OUT WHAT YOU DID WRONG) and if you ever want to reach out to me, just know it will never happen again and I will do A, B, and C if we ever speak again to show you how sincere I am." I believe those parents are able to really figure out what happened and can possibly lead to reconciliation. But there are some things that people never come back from, ie- sexual abuse.
The martyr goes around crying "woe as me, my children don't love me anymore after ALL I DID FOR THEM! It was their HUSBAND/WIFE with the magic penis/vagina! I'm the best damn parent EVER, all I did was help them and sacrifice for them!" That person will never learn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverBird
That all said, of course as you say there are parents who have smothered or hurt their kids in some way. But a mature adult kid would (should?) be able to deal with that parent at arms length and courteously keep in touch. There's no need to embrace the parent or express false love. Just create strong boundaries, politely checking in on the parents and maybe a visit once a year, or at least updates with a few pics by email. Despite any grievances, a kid has to realize what enormous energy, care and money it took to raise him or her. Maybe that kind of gratitude, even tinged with sadness for the shortcomings, is too hard to achieve, but I like to think is can be.
So basically your saying they should continue to take abuse because their parents raised them? Even if it's "only" one or two times a year? Why? Why should they take pity on their parents? Because they share DNA? Why should then their children be exposed to the people who treated them in a manner they felt was damaging? Oh they won't do the same to their children's children? Of course not at first, but sooner or later they will.
Nobody asks to be born, if a parent wants and has a child it's their responsibility to take care of a child. Gratitude isn't demanded, it's earned. If you treat your child poorly while raising them and made them know how much of an inconvenience it was for you, of course they will be gone the minute they can and not look back on how much "energy" it took for you to take care of them. The whole "after all I have done for you" is another tactic used by abusive parents. My son didn't choose to be born, I chose to have him.
Each situation is different and has two sides. Mine happened quickly when a young woman came into our lives. My son had an either or and he chose her. Now I call it sex. You think what you may. We never had any problems before this.
The way you talk makes me wonder how much you see yourself in your post. Maybe you see yourself as entitled perhaps.
Perfect example of how the "magic vagina" changed the perfect relationship you think you had with your son.
I'm just guessing but I wonder if anything of these apply: 1- you didn't respect this gf/spouse, 2- you tried to break them up, 3- you tried to undermine your son's and this woman's decisions, and 4- you gave him an ultimatum when he refused to be your surrogate spouse any longer.
You got me stumped on what I'm entitled to though. To be respected as a peer now that I'm married, have a career, and child of my own? You bet I'm "entitled" then. The minute I ceased living at home and being under my parents care and stopped obtaining financial help from them is the moment I became an adult and should be treated as such. And when my song is grown I will do the same for him.
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