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You are SO funny. LOL You're a good soul. :-) Bless you.
You're right. This wasn't a place to try to have other's fix us. Simply to tell our stories, if we wanted to, and to know that we are not alone.
And, yes, gratitude goes a long way in diminishing pain and in having a good life, no matter how difficult and painful life becomes.
AND, yes, I understand the need to 'hide'. And it doesn't matter. No one is a coward for not telling people who don't care about us the truth. I still lie at times. I probably will always do it.
I'm unofficially closing this thread (since I can't officially close it). That means only that I won't be back (which I realize is hardly the end of the world). This thread has deteriorated a lot over the past few days, and I no longer feel safe here. But I know this thread accomplished its purpose and that it will be around for a long time, so that people who come after will know that they are not alone either.
My great thanks to Escort Rider who started the thread when I was too chicken to do it (I thought no one would post -- little did I know).
[Why does my post sound like I've just accepted an Academy Award? LLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL]
And to everyone who posted their story -- and to everyone who just came to read -- my thoughts and prayers are with you. You really taught me that I'm not alone either.
Did you ever come back? I want to hear the rest of your story.
It can be no one's fault. It can be life events. We were tight with our son for 40 years until he divorced then remarried someone who was all about herself and her family. In fact, they married with just her family in attendance. This caused a 3 year estrangement but we are good now and back on track. She's makes it clear that she has no time to give us so we chug along, us, our son and the grandkids. It's just what we were dealt.
I struggle with the fact that neither of my children will tell me the reason they have cut off relationship with me. My imagination can be quite active at times and I always come up with "it is my fault", what did I do wrong, what didn't I say that I should have said. Etc.
When I look back and think about when they were small and growing up, I do remember trying to encourage them about their lives, told them they were smart, they can do anything, etc. But of course there were times of discipline, too, that may have been stronger than it needed to be. If their father disciplined them, I always thought it was overkill and did interfere.
My children are not "kids"----- son is 53, daughter 55.
I'd like to forgive myself for something, but I don't know what that something is.
You could spend what's left of your life trying to work that out and still be wrong.
My two older siblings pretty much cut ties with my mother, but my two younger siblings did not. Why? personalities .... values.
I think that we have children, raise them, and then we continue on with our lives with or without them in it. They don't owe us anything for giving birth and raising them, but by the same token, we don't owe them anything after they reach the age of majority.
Sure it's difficult to let go when you are so very emotionally attached. But, sometimes it is the healthiest thing to do.
1) Precisely why I only think about the past turmoil when I think relating it to someone having similar issues can benefit from some of my remarks which I hope prove helpful.
2) I'm not sure what, if anything, I can add. It's always so personal and individual and we all cope with it differently and even when there are similarities in the issues, they play out differently in every case. My coping was to never give up hope but at the same time I stropped having expectations because if you have no expectations you can never be disappointed. I also tried to be the bigger person so I could forever and always look back and honestly say, "No regrets!" as related to my behavior.
3) I agree on both counts.
4) Again I agree and it should be a two-way street. Sometimes you just have to, in your own mind, permit their behaviors and mistakes and hope they learn from them and eventually reach out to you to reestablish a mutually loving and giving relationship with you. I might suggest that you take your sister, her aunt, out of the equation. By keeping her in it you're giving her power over your emotions and your relationship with your daughter. I don't think you mean to do that. I always try to distance myself from toxic people even if they're related.
I hope somewhere in all this there's something that will help.
I'm not sure how to 'take my sister out of the equation'. She does not cross my mind much until I envision my daughter giving her time to her and not to me. Then I must say that my feelings take a turn for the worse.
I'm not as interested in being 'the bigger person'. I used to do that and found that I had more regrets by taking that stance. It appeared to me that a lot of people started expecting that I should always be the bigger person. In particular, my daughter.
Oldwoman, I have been following your posts, and feel for you.
I am trying to put myself in your place and yes I totally understand your feeling of betrayal and anger.
Maybe you can think of it this way. You have a relationship with your daughter that is independent of all her other relationships. Maybe you can focus on that.
You can also explore with her why she feels drawn to her aunt, even though she disliked her before. and listen to it without comment as if you are talking about a stranger.
When you get angry replace it with thought of your daughter, when she was young, your feelings then. Recall the times when things were good between you. Take out some old pictures and look at them and capture that feeling in your heart. Count her good qualities, her strengths.
Focus on making yourself happy. You only have power over yourself, nobody else. Only sacrifice you can expect is your own, you cannot make anyone else do it. Sacrifice your anger for your peace of mind.
I know these things are easily said and hard to follow. but it will release you from that hard feelings you arrying.
I appreciate your thoughtfulness and insights here. It is kind of you to go to the trouble.
I have tried to think in the way that you have described. I really just can't. As a very poor analogy, it would be like asking me to ignore my husband's illicit affair (were he to be having one).
It is not very easy to understand why my daughter does anything because she is not really sure of the 'why' herself. It's not that she is stupid or anything, on the contrary, she is very bright. But, she is not introspective and is not interested in exploring those feeling too much. She wants others to 'just accept' in the same manner in which she 'just accepts'. That's one of the places where we are so different.
I'm not sure about replacing my anger with good thoughts about her. I can do that easily, but it does not erase the feeling or diminish it, but rather simply represses or hides it for a time.
I do focus on making myself happy and have no problem doing that. I don't go around feeling angry about my daughter, I just feel it once in a blue moon when I think about her with my sister. Otherwise, my life is really very good.
I can only relate what I have gone through. I am estranged from my biological mother. This is between her and I. My daughter is an adult and she knows why I have cut ties with my bio mother. I have enabled my kids to decide with whom they want to contact or not.
She has reached out to my bio mother and has told me that she has. I don't bear her any animosity for doing so. She has a right to talk to, have a relationship with whomever she wants. I have let her know that she may get hurt but I will be there to pick up the pieces if she needs me.
For myself, I have raised my kids to be independent of me. They are old enough to make their own choices. I am not there to make those for them. I am here to give them my love and support in whatever they chose. I will not make them chose between someone or me. She loves me and shows it all the time. As far as I know, the communication between her grandmother and her are pretty limited to very occasional phone calls. I think my daughter is trying to facilitate a reunion of sorts but I don't think I am ready to be opened up to that hurt that I know will follow.
I guess what I am saying is don't we wish to have our children live independent from us? I get why my daughter wants that contact. To her it is all about family. She has always been the child that will take people under her wing. Sometimes to the detriment of herself. She is who she is. I love her compassion for people including those to whom I don't feel compassion towards. I am definitely more jaded than she is.
I wish I could feel the way that you do, but I don't. I feel betrayed. So what do I do with that feeling?
What would you think if your daughter chose to have a relationship with your mother even though it hurt you deeply?
I am sure there has been and continues to be a lot of blame. And since she prefers a relationship with her father (the abuser), it's obvious to me it is still my fault in her opinion. Both of my kids suffered when I was hospitalized with the breakdown. And it didn't help a lot that their father told them they were the reason for my breakdown. I had a lot of work to do when I finally recovered and could listen to them and help them understand that they had nothing to do with it.
I can't think of anything worse than sexual abuse done to a child. I don't think that child ever really "gets over it". And they somehow carry the wrong thought that they deserved it or that it was their fault. Then pile on top of that the abuser threatens the child with hurting the mother if she ever tells. Can you even imagine the load that kid carries?
Once she knew her father and I were splitting up, she was able to tell me about it. She was 20. I did try to help her, took her to counseling, tried to comfort her that it was not her fault, it was wrong, wrong, wrong. Once her brother found out he flipped out and said she is lying. He kept after me, it's not true, Mom, she's lying to you. It never happened. That caused quite a bit of trouble between both kids. I stuck by my daughter. I believed it was important to support her and believe her. Why would she lie about that?
More time passes, years actually. Son gets married. Has three kids. Son, daughter, daughter. My son must have inherited the cheating gene from his father, tells his wife he's leaving her for another woman. His oldest daughter accuses him of sexual molestation. My daughter calls son's wife and tells her that she believes he did it....... now she isn't sure who abused her, her father or her brother. So my son is arrested and sent to prison for five years and five years on paper. His future is pretty wrecked. Once you are accused and serve time for sex offense, it is written on your driver's license and not kept a secret.
My daughter could have but chose not to bring charges against her father.
So the million dollar question....... did he (ex and/or son) do it?
I invite anyone who would like to have lived through that and then tell me what went wrong..... I'd be curious to hear what you might say. I can guarantee you nobody wants to take up the offer.
All I can say is thank god I never had to deal with what you have had to deal with. I cannot imagine, in a million years, what it would be like for you.
No one can tell you what went wrong. People went wrong.
Your daughter's suffering is horrific and the excruciating pain you must be carrying because of it is not something anyone would want to bear.
A few posts were deleted. Reminder: Most people in this thread are in emotional pain. Please keep that in mind and do not judge or harshly criticize them.
Thank you for this. Imo, you are one of the best, if not THE best, moderators on C-D.
It is a myth that siblings raised in the same household experience the same childhood.
Even if we tell ourselves that we raised each child fairly and with "equal treatment," that is simply not possible. For one thing, raising each child with the same rules, the same expectations, the same discipline doesn't mean it truly was the best thing for each child, as each has a different personality, processes experiences differently, responds to things in his/her own unique way.
So what works for 3 may not work for that 4th child. And the sibling order - the expectations of the eldest as compared to the youngest - are always going to be different. For one thing, the eldest is always burdened with at least some feelings of "responsibility" for the younger siblings. ]
So true. I was not abused, just emotionally neglected for many understandable reasons. In short, as I was the oldest child (female) of five children (including one who was a 24/7 invalid who died at age 21) of a working class family, I was treated more as unpaid help than a daughter; and I was also required to give two-thirds of my income starting at age 14 to my parents "for my room and board" until I left home as soon as I turned 18. (I had a full-time summer job at age 14 and 15, and a year-round part-time job starting at age 16.) As a result, I have quite a bit of resentment and bitterness toward my mother (my father died years ago) that my sisters do not have, as they were not treated the way I was.
However, all that being said, I don't hate my mother; and in fact, I admire her very much for getting through and still living her life as well as she has. However, although we exchange birthday and Christmas cards and gifts, I am not close to her in any way, I do not love her, and I do not feel that I owe her anything. My youngest sister is her "caretaker"; my mom is a very healthy 84 now, knock wood, and still living in her own home, and she manages just fine at least 95% of the time. I am just grateful that my mother is now financially well off; and if she wants to leave everything to my sister(s) when she dies, that will truly be fine with me.
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