Retirees who are estranged from their adult children (grandparents, physically, weather)
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The idea for this thread comes from poster Fran66, who told me to go ahead and start it. The idea is to share stories about being estranged, either totally or partially, from adult children. Fran had commented in another thread that it's something that people don't like to talk about because (presumably) it's painful and perhaps even a cause of shame, but that she was relieved to find out she wasn't the only one. I think that's important - knowing we are not the only one. Fran, I hope I transmitted your thoughts faithfully - please correct as necessary.
My story is from the opposite direction; as an adult I was partially estranged from my mother who I found very hard to get along with. We lived about 2000 miles apart, but still communicated via occasional (once a month?) phone calls or letters and I visited in person every other year. We were on somewhat better terms by the time she died at age 90.
I was self-estranged from my mother for 20 years (for my own well being) and when she was dying, I did call her a couple of times as a favor to my father. Her death was like a change in the weather to me, and yes, I did feel ashamed that she meant so little to me- people just can't understand. "But it's your moooother!" Her death was a relief.
Apparently the m.o. among the family is estrangement. Hey, it works for me. When my father died, I re-realized that I don't like, respect or trust my sister, and we are now officially estranged, although we got along during his illness (great efforts). Again, I'm sort of ashamed of it, as so few people feel the same way, even about much worse relatives, but it works for me. (I don't have children by choice, and therefore cannot talk about being estranged from them, but if they did exist and learned the familia m.o....)
I'm not sure why it feels shameful. Maybe someone else can explain.
Imagine my surprise when I woke up to find that OP had outed me. :-) Which is all right, I guess, because I had outed myself on a different thread last night. :-)
My adult children (2 sons) stopped all contact with me about 13 years ago. (I have a baby granddaughter I've never even seen.) The first two years were full of grief: I missed my boys, and my grandchildren were growing up without me. And then suddenly it just didn't matter very much anymore. So then I felt ashamed that I really didn't care anymore.
I never talked to anyone about it (other than my therapist at the time), because I was too ashamed about the whole thing.
Then seven years ago I retired and moved to NM, which has A LOT of East Coast and West Coast transplant retirees. Joined our great Senior Centers here. Made friends and acquaintances. And slowly but surely I began to realize, as people (mainly women) started to open up, that family estrangement is the new silent epidemic. It is not at all uncommon, but we are not talking about it because we're too ashamed. We don't trust anyone either. If you reveal this to a friend, we think she/he may say, "Oh, I'm so sorry this is happening to you," but may be thinking, "Yeah, right -- what kind of rotten parent were you REALLY?" And deep down inside we're not 100% sure that we were good parents, because, after all, if we were good parents, how could our children not want to be in contact with us, right? Well, most of us probably were good parents -- very good parents -- and since there are no support groups for us, I thought the anonymity of this board might allow some people to speak and to be supported.
The only thing I'm going to ask is that we be kind to each other here. For a lot of people this is very painful. So let's muster up whatever compassion we have or be silent. We can usually say almost anything we want to say with kindness. But we don't always have to 'fix' someone else and their situation either.
One of my sisters has a daughter in her mid-30s who is rude to her and has estranged herself, but seems to have some kind ob bipolar disorder and so my sister cannot tell if it may be that. She brought up her daughter in an affluent home but did not spoil her with materialism. The daughter had nice clothes and trips, etc. and had her college paid for by her parents. She had a 30-grand wedding paid for by her parents over 10 years ago, and help with everything including buying and furnishing a nice home. Neither she nor her new husband made a huge amount, so my sister and her husband gave them so much. This girl had a chip on her shoulder for so many years, possibly envying her older successful brother. It pains me to see such a potentially lovely young woman treating her mother with such a crappy attitude esp all my sister had done for her.
My other sister has two highly professional daughters who only call to complain about their lives. They had absolutely the best of everything. Both my sisters were good parents, always attentive and loving. My kids did not grow up affluent in any respect and could well be resentful because they grew up among wealthier kids. Fortunately they treat their parents with love and respect. I cannot claim that we were better parents than my sisters and their husbands. In fact I cannot draw any conclusions at all really, except to say that our kids' generation grew up with a lot of media influence, most not for the better. There is a distance between many boomer parents and their kids that baffles. I also hear from my kids about some of their friends' familiies in which some minor thing happened and subsequently all communications have been cut off for years. I cannot imagine not calling a meeting and saying look, life is short kids, so let's get over this. That's would I would do, but then I'm more proactive than most.
I am highly sensitive to the pain this causes in parents, as I have talked my sisters through many a tearful night even though honestly I have no answers. I do believe that adult kids need to come to grips on their own. My sisters and I were abused by our mother and still we were there for her as she aged. Anyone else in our shoes would have abandoned her.
May all parents in this situation find a philosophy that eases their hearts. This is not your fault.
I was self-estranged from my mother for 20 years (for my own well being) and when she was dying, I did call her a couple of times as a favor to my father. Her death was like a change in the weather to me, and yes, I did feel ashamed that she meant so little to me- people just can't understand. "But it's your moooother!" Her death was a relief.
Apparently the m.o. among the family is estrangement. Hey, it works for me. When my father died, I re-realized that I don't like, respect or trust my sister, and we are now officially estranged, although we got along during his illness (great efforts). Again, I'm sort of ashamed of it, as so few people feel the same way, even about much worse relatives, but it works for me. (I don't have children by choice, and therefore cannot talk about being estranged from them, but if they did exist and learned the familia m.o....)
I'm not sure why it feels shameful. Maybe someone else can explain.
I think -- I may be wrong -- that we feel ashamed because this is just not the way it's supposed to be. In the past 50-60 years, we've had WAY too many TV shows and movies that show families who are close and supporting each other (I'm currently watching reruns of The Walton Family) or who disagree but wind up reconciled in the end.
We may have read "Mommy Dearest" in which Christina Crawford outs her abusive mother Joan Crawford -- but we really didn't like Christina for doing that.
Our religious upbringing tells us to "honor thy father and thy mother."
We've all read stories about how adult children, who were sexually abused by their fathers (or mothers) wind up forgiving their parent and reconciling. And why can't we be like that, right?
We KNOW there is something 'wrong' with us if we're estranged from our parents and if our children are estranged from us because IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY (right?) and because we never dreamed, as we were growing up or as mothers and fathers, that we would wind up estranged. And, yes, sometimes there are very good reasons. But I think many times it's because there is so little support in this country for families. Also, there is so much emphasis on individuality and independence. Also, we live in a narcissistic society. And, also, most families now are small families. And we no longer live close to each other. (I live in NM, one son lives on The East Coast, and other son lives on The West Coast.)
I've been estranged from my mother and father for most of my adult life -- I am now 64. I left home at 19 and never went back (well, once, because I was so sick). And I have NO regrets at all. My mother was horribly abusive (physically and verbally), and she still is verbally. Every time I've made contact with her and my father over the years, I've been well reminded why I don't talk to them. [And, yes, they are very well taken care of (I would never let them want for basic needs -- after all, they are my parents), and my sister (my only sibling) visits them every other weekend, for the whole weekend. Altho' I doubt she would if my parents didn't have a lot of money.]
There's nothing to be ashamed of, Brightdoglover. It was certainly a sad situation for you -- and I certainly feel sad sometimes that my situation wasn't different -- but there is nothing to be ashamed of. And I'm hoping that this thread will prove what I know to be true: a lot of people are estranged (or have been estranged -- parents are sometimes deceased by now) as you and I. Most of us just not talking about it.
One of my sisters has a daughter in her mid-30s who is rude to her and has estranged herself, but seems to have some kind ob bipolar disorder and so my sister cannot tell if it may be that. She brought up her daughter in an affluent home but did not spoil her with materialism. The daughter had nice clothes and trips, etc. and had her college paid for by her parents. She had a 30-grand wedding paid for by her parents over 10 years ago, and help with everything including buying and furnishing a nice home. Neither she nor her new husband made a huge amount, so my sister and her husband gave them so much. This girl had a chip on her shoulder for so many years, possibly envying her older successful brother. It pains me to see such a potentially lovely young woman treating her mother with such a crappy attitude esp all my sister had done for her.
My other sister has two highly professional daughters who only call to complain about their lives. They had absolutely the best of everything. Both my sisters were good parents, always attentive and loving. My kids did not grow up affluent in any respect and could well be resentful because they grew up among wealthier kids. Fortunately they treat their parents with love and respect. I cannot claim that we were better parents than my sisters and their husbands. In fact I cannot draw any conclusions at all really, except to say that our kids' generation grew up with a lot of media influence, most not for the better. There is a distance between many boomer parents and their kids that baffles. I also hear from my kids about some of their friends' familiies in which some minor thing happened and subsequently all communications have been cut off for years. I cannot imagine not calling a meeting and saying look, life is short kids, so let's get over this. That's would I would do, but then I'm more proactive than most.
I am highly sensitive to the pain this causes in parents, as I have talked my sisters through many a tearful night even though honestly I have no answers. I do believe that adult kids need to come to grips on their own. My sisters and I were abused by our mother and still we were there for her as she aged. Anyone else in our shoes would have abandoned her.
May all parents in this situation find a philosophy that eases their hearts. This is not your fault.
You are such a sweetheart. And I'm going to comment on this because you made two very important points. But I'm going to do it later. I've just realized -- this moment -- that this is not the way I want to start the day. [And I'm not even awake! ] I'll be back later. Probably after my wonderful weekly massage this aftn. (Eat your hearts out. )
My story is from the opposite direction; as an adult I was partially estranged from my mother who I found very hard to get along with. We lived about 2000 miles apart, but still communicated via occasional (once a month?) phone calls or letters and I visited in person every other year. We were on somewhat better terms by the time she died at age 90.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover
I was self-estranged from my mother for 20 years (for my own well being) and when she was dying, I did call her a couple of times as a favor to my father. Her death was like a change in the weather to me, and yes, I did feel ashamed that she meant so little to me- people just can't understand. "But it's your moooother!" Her death was a relief.
Apparently the m.o. among the family is estrangement. Hey, it works for me. When my father died, I re-realized that I don't like, respect or trust my sister, and we are now officially estranged, although we got along during his illness (great efforts). Again, I'm sort of ashamed of it, as so few people feel the same way, even about much worse relatives, but it works for me. (I don't have children by choice, and therefore cannot talk about being estranged from them, but if they did exist and learned the familia m.o....)
I'm not sure why it feels shameful. Maybe someone else can explain.
I can understand the shame. I've always had a very difficult time getting along with my mother (very critical Swiss-German, has problems with most people). I agreed to move to Iowa 19 years ago with my then husband in large part to have more distance, and for my children's sake (who she made cry several times when they were young). She visits us about once every 2-4 years for a week, and I usually see a therapist for a couple months before she comes here. Actually, she is arriving here this afternoon to visit for a week. My stomach is in knots. Unlike other times though, she is going through the beginning stages of Alzheimer's, and this will be her last visit here. Lately, it's been easier to get along with her as she is not as focused any more. I feel an intense mix of emotions for what never was, she's still my mother. Thanks for starting this thread. Hope I'm not too off target from the subject here.
Estrangement can come out of nowhere, one minute you think you have a good relationship then a word or two is said that can't be retracted or forgotten. I am estranged from a brother who came at me and my husband with his finger in our faces at our mother's funeral. He got even more bent out of shape when we didn't go back to his house after the funeral for more abuse. Up to then, we got along. He was always a hothead but we managed a decent sibling relationship. Now it's been 10 years of estrangement.
I have one grown child, a son who I think we have a good relationship with but he's engaged to be marred to a bossy woman and he's handed over the reins so time will tell. I try my best but this walking on egg shells is killing me.
I don't think there's room for judgment. There's no getting into anyone's head, no matter how close we think we are to them, and knowing the perception of what's going on at any given time. Estrangement happens.
Great idea for a thread and this has to be one of the most painful feelings of all.
This is not about me--I do not speak to one of my sisters and it is my choice culminating in her trying to turn my mother against me when my mother was dying. I feel no guilt. She is a toxic person.
But my husband has two grown kids, boy and girl twins who will have nothing to do with him. He used to always talk about them and he wanted them to come over here (the US from the UK) for visits. The girl has had almost no contact since he left except at first she would talk on facebook.
The boy was fine, emailing dh and conversing on facebook. We were sending Christmas presents to both of them and then one year we heard nothing from the daughter, not a thank you for the present, nothing. I asked the son on FB if he knew whether his sister had received her gift and he said he'd ask her. That was the end of it.
Looks like he talked to her and she said something and he, too, cut off communications. We think it's being fueled by the ex-wife. She didn't want him but maybe she didn't want anyone else to have him either?
The son is sort of a loser anyway, got on drugs, works only sporadically, his dad would find jobs for him and he'd quit after a few weeks. The son now has three kids, no wife, just a girlfriend. I think the girlfriend can get welfare as long as they don't get married. So it's not such a great situation but my dh has three grandchildren that he can't see if we go to England.
I used to check the daughter's FB page every so often and one day there were congratulations on getting married! She never even told her own dad! I know he was hurt. I guess I made it worse because I thought that was so mean that I actually messaged her on FB and told her so. Now he has heard from a friend back home that she has had a baby!
All of this is apparently being orchestrated by his ex and we don't really know what she's telling them--or maybe she's bribing them with money? She's poisoned their minds against him. dh now says he doesn't care but he does. He keeps emailing the one mutual friend back in England, asking her what's going on. The friend talks to both the son and the daughter and tries to get them to talk to their dad. So far, nothing though. It's heart breaking because they all got along so well before and their dad isn't going to live forever. I wonder if they'll even care to be notified when he passes away. I don't think he feels ashamed. He talked to someone the other day who was in the same boat and they just sort of shrugged, can't understand it.
I was self-estranged from my mother for 20 years (for my own well being) and when she was dying, I did call her a couple of times as a favor to my father. Her death was like a change in the weather to me, and yes, I did feel ashamed that she meant so little to me- people just can't understand. "But it's your moooother!" Her death was a relief.
Apparently the m.o. among the family is estrangement. Hey, it works for me. When my father died, I re-realized that I don't like, respect or trust my sister, and we are now officially estranged, although we got along during his illness (great efforts). Again, I'm sort of ashamed of it, as so few people feel the same way, even about much worse relatives, but it works for me. (I don't have children by choice, and therefore cannot talk about being estranged from them, but if they did exist and learned the familia m.o....) I'm not sure why it feels shameful. Maybe someone else can explain. [boldface added]
Shame is the opposite of self-worth/self-esteem. High self-esteem is almost automatic when family (especially parents for children, and, later in life, children for parents) consistently mirror that the family member is valued and loved. (I say "almost" because I think there are life experiences that can overwhelm what family provides/provided, but barring extreme circumstances, that positive family provides a foundation of self-esteem that is very resilent and enduring in the face of life's challenges and disappointments.)
It's not impossible to have self-esteem when the messages from important others is instead (and consistently) that you don't measure up, are not worth much, are a burden, are a failure in your family role, etc. But I think for most people in this situation it's not easy or automatic.
And I think even though self-esteem can come about even in the absence of validation of one's worth by family, it is usually less resistant to life's ups and downs and may have to be effortfully rebuilt at times. Sometimes people have to do it themselves; sometimes they are lucky to find others--grandparents, teachers, friends, later on spouses, even professional mentors or work supervisors, who help by letting the person know they have a lot to offer. But in my opinion, there is always a fragility if it wasn't there in the home for a child.
My guess is that while things like divorce or being fired from a long-term job, or having children that are estranged and don't want you in your grandchildren's life are hard on everyone, they are harder on a person whose sense of self-worth wasn't rooted in being born into a family where they were valued but where that feeling of self-worth came later on (or from outside the home during childhood), in fact often being rooted in things like the marriage that is now ending in divorce, etc.--very painful stuff.
There is also a difference between private self-esteem and social/public self-esteem. Even if a person can privately come to terms with a bad family situation and feel they are still worth something, there are still social situations where some people will be judgmental and stigmatize someone (feel there must be something wrong with a person if their parents didn't love them or if their children are estranged or just if they don't have the "natural" family feelings/relationships). (This paragraph, rather than my post as a whole, may be the more relevant thought in answer to the question in the post I quoted, but I think other parts of my post might resonate with the experience of other people who would be interested in this thread.)
I don't have children, so (even though I'm an empathic person and try to understand what life is from others' vantage points) I'm sure there's a lot that's relevant to this thread that is simply not on my radar, but I think these things are at least part of the picture.
And I appreciate this thread. Not easy to read (or write) about this, but so fundamental to so much else.
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(Eat your hearts out. 
