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Old 05-13-2013, 01:11 PM
 
2,634 posts, read 3,675,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
absolutely
judging and measuring other's happiness can lead to be deep unhappiness. best to count your blessings.
Trying to measure other's unhappiness can also lead to deep depression. Best to count your blessings. And stop trying to analyze everything about other's unhappiness. We hardly have all the answers when it comes to happiness and unhappiness -- even our own. (As I've said before -- not on this thread -- I don't think -- I'm not a great fan of 'happiness'. I think it's rare and pretty superficial.)
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:12 PM
 
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It is my observation after much intelligence gathering and many surprises that even the apparently happen families are not as numerous as one may think.

In reality there are overtly distressed families, there are ones who fake being happy (and often make lots of use of Facebook to spin this) and then, a slim minority, the truly happy ones.

What can one say. The social chaos and globalization forces have torn families apart. Not much more to say here
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:47 PM
 
Location: State of Being
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
Trying to measure other's unhappiness can also lead to deep depression. Best to count your blessings. And stop trying to analyze everything about other's unhappiness. We hardly have all the answers when it comes to happiness and unhappiness -- even our own. (As I've said before -- not on this thread -- I don't think -- I'm not a great fan of 'happiness'. I think it's rare and pretty superficial.)
"We're about as happy as we allow ourselves to be."

I don't know if there is such a thing as a happy collective of people. Happiness is a very individual phenomenon, as it were . . . and how one measures it, totally subjective. Is being satisfied being happy? Is the opposite of depression happiness? I don't know . . . but I don't see how a "happy family" as a label can exist . . . except at one moment in time . . . Everyone gets what they want . . . they are happy. One person rocks the boat, no one is happy . . . ???

I am not a great fan of happiness, either, Fran. I agree - count one's blessings, choose to have a kind spirit and a loving countenance and then how other people react or interact or don't react is on their shoulders. I can't be responsible for other people's happiness except through doing my best not to create any misery.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:30 PM
 
2,634 posts, read 3,675,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
"We're about as happy as we allow ourselves to be."

I don't know if there is such a thing as a happy collective of people. Happiness is a very individual phenomenon, as it were . . . and how one measures it, totally subjective. Is being satisfied being happy? Is the opposite of depression happiness? I don't know . . . but I don't see how a "happy family" as a label can exist . . . except at one moment in time . . . Everyone gets what they want . . . they are happy. One person rocks the boat, no one is happy . . . ???

I am not a great fan of happiness, either, Fran. I agree - count one's blessings, choose to have a kind spirit and a loving countenance and then how other people react or interact or don't react is on their shoulders. I can't be responsible for other people's happiness except through doing my best not to create any misery.
Yes, I think you're right. I think of myself as happy -- but it's really more that I have a lot of joy and a lot of gratitude, simply for being alive. And I may not have a lot of what I want (which certainly diminishes A LOT as I age) but I have more than enough of everything I need.

Edit: no - I should have said that I think we are responsible for others' WELL BEING. You're right. We're not responsible for their happiness. Not at all.

I tend to disagree: if we have a gift for, say, feeding the homeless but we don't do that because we're afraid we might create a little more misery along the way -- feed the homeless! We're not perfect. We're always going to be unintentionally offending someone and maybe -- just thoughtlessly -- just obliviously -- creating a little more misery in someone else's life. But why should the other 99% of the homeless have to suffer from hunger? I think we need to be aware as we possibly can. I think professional dogooders can do a lot of harm if they are not aware of what they are doing and why they are doing it -- for instance, I think harmless, slightly mentally deranged people who say they WANT to live on the streets (which has been 'home' to them for years) -- let them live on the streets! Why do I think I always know what is best for other people? Simply because I like the life I have -- that doesn't mean everyone who lives a life like mine will like it.

My point is: I think we are responsible for the happiness of others. BUT we'd better be very aware of our intentions and what we are doing. If our husband/wife is in a funk and isn't asking for help, better to leave him in a funk. It's called 'respect'. (Of course, if the funk lasts a month -- you get my drift though. )

Edit: I should have said that I think we're responsible for others' WELL BEING. You're right. We're not responsible for another person's happiness.

Last edited by Fran66; 05-13-2013 at 02:40 PM.. Reason: Addition
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post

Edit: I should have said that I think we're responsible for others' WELL BEING. You're right. We're not responsible for another person's happiness.
Exactly. I'm no one's cheerleader and no one is mine. We make our own happiness. We make our own sadness.

Someone posted this on facebook today and it changed my day for the best:

"Because she looks to the sky so often, people think that her life is sweet, that her eyes are dotted with dreamy stars. But quite the opposite is true and I wish they could see— she looks up so much because all around her it's hard to see without breaking her heart. She once saw in a movie a window sign that said "We're all in the gutter; but some of us are looking at the stars." From that movie onwards, she decided to look up! Doesn't mean her life is sweet, doesn't mean her eyes are dotted with dreamy stars."

I'm choosing to look up at the stars. Too late for a happy family but it makes for a happy me.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 20,831,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Well, yes, Escort.
What I said only applies if it's not taken to some pathological level.
Anything we do, we choose to do. It was never asked of or expected of us.
We all moved away to go to school, grad school, etc.
When you really like and care about people, you choose to stay near them.
My wife and I do the "switch-off" holiday system. No one complains about it, but to be fair, I don't get holidays off regularly, so I usually can't go anywhere. In those cases, she goes by herself or just stays here.
The sentence I bolded is the one I'm not sure I agree with. There are some reasons why one could move away despite liking and caring about people, but I already gave an example in my other post and I do not wish to belabor the point. My take on that sentence would be:

When you really like and care about people, you accept their choice not to stay near you with good grace and with the knowledge that the liking and caring will not ipso facto cease.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:45 PM
 
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I agree with those of you who say we create our own happiness. Also unhappiness. Contrary to there being no such thing as happiness there has been scientific research going on for a long time on positive psychology, or in other words what is happiness and how we can have more of it. There is now strong evidence that while we all have set levels of happiness, determined by several factors including genetics, the level of happiness can be permanently increased by 40%. I find there is a lot of optimism in that.

I also think it is beneficial to study how certain families manage to stay happy, however we define it, just as best practices in businesses are studied and duplicated to yield positive results. A lot of things about creating or increasing happiness is in fact mechanical such as being kind, having kind thoughts, compassion, doing things for others, and as simple as smiling which apparently stimulates nerves and chemicals that makes us happy.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:57 PM
 
2,634 posts, read 3,675,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I agree with those of you who say we create our own happiness. Also unhappiness. Contrary to there being no such thing as happiness there has been scientific research going on for a long time on positive psychology, or in other words what is happiness and how we can have more of it. There is now strong evidence that while we all have set levels of happiness, determined by several factors including genetics, the level of happiness can be permanently increased by 40%. I find there is a lot of optimism in that.

I also think it is beneficial to study how certain families manage to stay happy, however we define it, just as best practices in businesses are studied and duplicated to yield positive results. A lot of things about creating or increasing happiness is in fact mechanical such as being kind, having kind thoughts, compassion, doing things for others, and as simple as smiling which apparently stimulates nerves and chemicals that makes us happy.
And how did they/do they 'scientifically' measure a human being's happiness when happiness is such a subjective emotional state? As are emotional states. There is no scientific evidence. There is only evidence. But, yes, you are right -- there is evidence. At best, all the measurers can do is look at brain images and measure brain waves when some pleasure or picture of pleasure is introduced to the eyes.

Here's something about it from 2010: Happiness is ... becoming a bit more scientific | Barbara Gunnell | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


I'm not happy (I don't think I am, at least), but I am pretty joyful and grateful, and I'll put my brain waves next to anyone happy person's brain images, and I'll bet big money that I come out ahead or at least 'equal' (if that is even possible and I doubt it -- being equal, I mean).

Here's something to look at re happiness and joy:

Happiness vs Joy - Difference and Comparison | Diffen
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:06 PM
 
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Here is one happiness study that details how the evidence was collected and studied. It is from Stanford University.
http://http://thehowofhappiness.com/

In fact there is a prof. Of theology who uses this text to help incoming freshman to cope with their class work and transition to college.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:06 PM
 
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OK, somebody has to do it (unless somebody already has and I just missed it):

"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

-- Leo Tolstoy, opening line of Anna Karenina
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