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Actually, even smaller towns in NC have seen such arrangements for decades with Asian, Malaysian, etc families.
I got my real estate license in 1982 and the first house I sold was to a Pakistani family - grandparents included. Multigenerational. Very nice home . . . and grandparents were helping to take care of small children while father (physician) and mother (nurtionist) worked.
On my own street in Charlotte, we have Korean family with grandparents living there, too. Again, large, beautiful home and grandparents have helped out with childcare, have a gorgeous suburban veggie garden in the back that they tend to.
But my favorite examples are of family members who have been doing this since moving here in the 1700s. Until this last generation, it was typical for parents to move in with one of their children (or to have an adult child and his/her family move into the parents home).
My widowed Aunt even took her brother-in-law into her home back in the 70s, after a debilitating stroke. He had no children, so there was no one to be caretaker. He was bedridden and couldn't speak. She had a large home (on a farm) and she was his caretaker til he died - about 5 years.
I have friends here in the mountains who are caretaking their elderly parent in their homes. No one considered any other arrangement. "Family takes care of Family."
As you all have said, caretaking of family elders is not new.
Society has changed so that:
1 -- the adult children move away more for school and work than they did decades ago
They were all already in the same city. The elders didn't have to MOVE, leave their friends and life, to get the 'care' from the sdult children. Many elders fight tooth and nail NOT to move.
2 -- the middle generation mother -- the adult daughter or daughter-in-law -- that the parent(s) lived with didn't work, so she was at home....to DO the caretaking
Now that mom/daughter works so she's not at home to DO the caretaking
3 -- grandparents perhaps didn't live as long, and even if they did points one and two above took care of some of that.
4 -- the elders didn't have dementia as much
On this last point, did they not get it...or was it not diagnosed?
To be honest, I don't remember hearing about as many senile old people as I hear about now. We all knew families that had older grandparents, or had church/synogogue members who were elderly. But I declare I don't recall so many losing their mental skills.
Aren't senility and Cancer inevitable if we live long enough? There are early life issues that kill and as we conquer them we set ourselves up for later in life issues. Sorta like pesticides in third world countries a few decades ago. Country had life expectancy of 35 with many starving to death. Introduce pesticides and nutrition improved and the would have lived to average age 55 but because of the pesticides they had average life expectancy of 50. Hmmm and we wondered why they said we don't care, go ahead and spray.
Go to places like Northern Virginia and million dollar home communities with mostly Asian and Indian etc Families.
My point is that these families with money in NOVA or elsewhere are not the norm across the country by any stretch. There is always a minority of something. Before anyone jumps in and brings in the "hard work" factor, it has been said there are generally three points to a success (through one's own merits) triangle – education, opportunity (often through class but not always), and hard work. Of the three, in comparing and contrasting the super successful to the struggling, I challenge the notion that hard work would be a factor that has legitimate correlation.
You are right, of course, that anyone can die at any age. I could die within five minutes of clicking on the "submit" button for this present post.
However, as I have participated in this Retirement Forum over the years, when people talk about the longevity in their families I get the impression they are mostly making the point that since longevity runs in their families, they will be orienting their retirement planning around the possibility that they may just have a long life also. That is only reasonable and does not necessarily constitute the denial of "it won't happen to me", although some people are doubtless in denial as you note.
We are all influenced more by what we see around us than by statistics anyway, in my opinion. We see longevity, or lack of it, in our relatives, our colleagues, our neighbors, our classmates from high school, and others whom we know. Therefore I am interested in your observations. Among your co-workers who have died, what seems to be a rough average age of death? And what is/was your occupation? Not a "dangerous" one, I hope, such as coal mining where so many wind up with lung disease which affects longevity.
Among my co workers some were as young as in their 20's, but most were in there 50's. These were people that I worked closely with. My cousin (my age) died a few months ago ( heart attack and sudden death), during his funeral in the next room was another co-workers that I knew very well, he was 65. A fellow volunteer firefighter was bit by a mosquito with yellow fever and died from it a week later, he was 60. But I would say that the majority died from heart attacks and cancer.
My profession is engineer for a fortune 500 company, not a dangerous profession. BTW at age 60 I'm now the oldest of all my blood relatives.
What most people do not know is that the expected longevity ages are based on the death due to natural causes only, not by any cause deemed a "landmine" or in other words accidents, suicide, or other causes other then natural causes. If someone dies at the age of 50 from cancer or a heart attack it is not considered a natural cause. I was watching a news show when they had a "expert pundit" explaining what the longevity list means. He continued to say that if all the causes of death were factored into the longevity list the average age would drop by 15-20 years.
^^ That is definitely something to think about...no day is promised to anyone.
It's not as strong as pity, but I definitely feel a tiny, teeny bit of sadness/wonderment regarding co workers who -- either at 70 are still working. Oh they SAY they love their job....but....
One has an ex-wife he SAYS he needs to keep supporting...another has a sick wife who needs care, they're separated but he's supporting her, too....another at 71 says he loves his job, but he also is helping to support ADULT children and I mean adults in their 40s....helped them buy a house, helped the buy a car, gave a car to one of the grandkids, paid for another's equestrian lessons, helped another child move cross country.....so he loves being the big money provider (I think a lot of that is ego), but hey it's his life. He's making six figures, collecting one pension, and Soc Sec. AND will have another pension from the job he has now. He's still in good health so if he wants to work....more power to him, I guess.
Then there was the co-worker who had to be FORCED to retire...because he was an out-and-out liability...he'd fallen/fainted more than once at work, got 'lost' walking from one side of the work floor to the other......from the time left his desk until he got to the supe's desk he'd forgotten what he walked over there for, and was clearly at other times more than just 'forgetful.'
Over the decades, only a few coworkers have looked forward to retirement and were in the "I can't wait, I'm outta here as soon as I hit my Soc Sec full retirement age" camp. Most haven't even thought about it. As I talk with them about it, some say they can't afford it. Yet, they haven't done the numbers to see if they can indeed afford it. Every chance I get I put the retirement bug in their ear. I ask you don't have ANYthing you'd rather do? NO place you'd rather visit" NO one you'd rather spend time with than come HERE everyday? A couple of them have indeed retired....I guess after a couple of years of thinking about it.....it sounded better and better.
Personally I have no intention of working until I'm senile, and CAN'T travel and do the things I WANT to do.
^^ That is definitely something to think about...no day is promised to anyone.
It's not as strong as pity, but I definitely feel a tiny, teeny bit of sadness/wonderment regarding co workers who -- either at 70 are still working. Oh they SAY they love their job....but....
One has an ex-wife he SAYS he needs to keep supporting...another has a sick wife who needs care, they're separated but he's supporting her, too....another at 71 says he loves his job, but he also is helping to support ADULT children and I mean adults in their 40s....helped them buy a house, helped the buy a car, gave a car to one of the grandkids, paid for another's equestrian lessons, helped another child move cross country.....so he loves being the big money provider (I think a lot of that is ego), but hey it's his life. He's making six figures, collecting one pension, and Soc Sec. AND will have another pension from the job he has now. He's still in good health so if he wants to work....more power to him, I guess.
Then there was the co-worker who had to be FORCED to retire...because he was an out-and-out liability...he'd fallen/fainted more than once at work, got 'lost' walking from one side of the work floor to the other......from the time left his desk until he got to the supe's desk he'd forgotten what he walked over there for, and was clearly at other times more than just 'forgetful.'
Over the decades, only a few coworkers have looked forward to retirement and were in the "I can't wait, I'm outta here as soon as I hit my Soc Sec full retirement age" camp. Most haven't even thought about it. As I talk with them about it, some say they can't afford it. Yet, they haven't done the numbers to see if they can indeed afford it. Every chance I get I put the retirement bug in their ear. I ask you don't have ANYthing you'd rather do? NO place you'd rather visit" NO one you'd rather spend time with than come HERE everyday? A couple of them have indeed retired....I guess after a couple of years of thinking about it.....it sounded better and better.
Personally I have no intention of working until I'm senile, and CAN'T travel and do the things I WANT to do.
Yep, there's a lot to be said for the self-awareness that permits people to realize it when they are no longer cutting the mustard at work. Much better to go out at the top of one's game than to wait for bosses to force the issue. Sometimes you can be a danger to yourself and others. I stopped riding motorcycles professionally when I was 66 for that very reason; I was still at the top of my game but didn't want to wait to start slipping, as there was too much at stake. Besides, what had been a fantastic adventure was becoming more like a chore; that is an unmistakable sign.
Very interesting thread. Thank you for posting it, TUBORG.
I see the future, in re: to healthcare, as being very different than it is today. The pendulum is necessarily swinging back to pre-Hill/Burton days . . .
I envision a new type of "warehousing" necessarily evolving.
Gone will be the private rooms in hospitals (except for the very wealthy). Hospitals will be designed to accommodate patients in a "ward" setting, with 10 beds or so in a room. Same for nursing homes. Oh yeah, it will be called something else . . . and it may be that there will be some accommodation for privacy - more like "cubbies" we are used to in office settings. But all the upscale accoutrements, private care, staffing requirements - those things will change. They are already changing.
Docs will no longer be able to demand high salaries.
Medical education (how it is conducted; how physicians are licensed) will have to change, along with the cost of medical education.
There simply is not going to be enough money to continue to underwrite nursing home care as we know it now.
Gen Xers already have so much resentment towards their parents' generation . . . they will have no problem passing legislation to warehouse folks in nursing home settings.
There will be much more strict guidelines for Medicare and the delivery of service. For example, if a person is over 75, he/she won't get that knee replacement underwritten. Get a cane. Or a walker. Or a wheelchair.
Things will change and the changes are already happening. By 2030, things will have begun evolving into something similar to what I have outlined. By 2040, if you are alive, you will think of the year 2000 as having been "the good ole days" in regard to the delivery of healthcare in this country.
Where I live, unless there is an absolute need for someone to be in a nursing home or hospital, they go home. The nurses visit, and if they need care they go to the hospital and when they don't home. The neighbor next door's wife is very ill, and we see an ambulance every month or so, but she isn't in a bed in an institution and she has her grandkids around her. This is another option. It my be that the next generation which isn't so much in a hurry to move out will not be so anxious to chuck out grandma so they aren't limiited and with care provided, grandma might stay.
People who are able to care for themselves, but need some help, can be much more cheaply served by having a home health care person come and help them, report if they need medical care and let them stay home. That is the general direction this state has taken.
I had to put Dad in a nursing home. He no longer knew who any of us were, and couldn't get out of bed, and we were not sure how long we'd last at any one place. But if Dad could have come and had someone come and help care and have those last months with him, absolutely sure I would have had him.
No, I didn't misread, and yes, it appears to be a very big deal and apparently way underreported and tracked. Just think of the ramifications in the healthcare system for starters. And boomers are just starting into the period when we may be most at risk.
I'm 67. No one in my extended family (aunts/uncles - their spouses - my siblings/cousins or their spouses - even second cousins/great aunts/uncles/etc.) has any kind of dementia - except for 1 aunt-in-law who's 90+. What about your family? We can listen to these aholes who are trying to alarm us - or look around us. Robn
Aren't senility and Cancer inevitable if we live long enough? There are early life issues that kill and as we conquer them we set ourselves up for later in life issues. Sorta like pesticides in third world countries a few decades ago. Country had life expectancy of 35 with many starving to death. Introduce pesticides and nutrition improved and the would have lived to average age 55 but because of the pesticides they had average life expectancy of 50. Hmmm and we wondered why they said we don't care, go ahead and spray.
Well - you gotta die of something .
I'm not sure why people worry so much about not smoking - not drinking - and eating kale. Only to have to worry about being demented if they live to 80+. Robyn
I'm 67. No one in my extended family (aunts/uncles - their spouses - my siblings/cousins or their spouses - even second cousins/great aunts/uncles/etc.) has any kind of dementia - except for 1 aunt-in-law who's 90+. What about your family? We can listen to these aholes who are trying to alarm us - or look around us. Robn
My family being old world Italian and French wouldn't miss a trick no matter what, they adamantly refused to undergo any kind of dementia to be certain no one got the better of them. I'm not making a joke of a serious, heartbreaking disease, but this honestly is the way they were. Even as my mother showed mild signs of general dementia beginning at 90, her memory was unimpaired and she told a social worker we'd sent over to check her out that she was having a wonderful day reading John Grisham and writing her bills, would she kindly go away. Even with her mild form she forced herself to function, write her own bills, etc. If she had had A's I know she would have wanted to die.
OTOH, I have an adult ed class and in it, six of the 12 (boomer age) participants had (or have) parents with advancing dementia, two so far who have died from (not with) it in institutions. One is writing a memoir about it, her mom died just last month. I know little about the whole genre of dementia, and am mentioning only what I read by the so-called experts, including the national Alzheimer website.
I really don't think we are being alarmed. It seems rather the opposite, that the whole condition is being underreported, but that's understandable b/c the tests for dementia/A's are perhaps not terribly advanced, and these diseases are intertwined with others that an aged person likely has. A lot more clinical findings will probably emerge with the huge wave of boomers coming over the hill.
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