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I'd agree, if someone specifically addresses others with remarks like that, ie "I did, why don't you", or "you must have spent your money on...(plug in items), those remarks are uncalled for as they are critical of others and are based on assumptions they don't know are true about those others. I'd never say that others don't make those remarks ( because I know there are some who do), but I haven't seen them in this thread. Maybe I have missed them, but I have seen a number of posts accusing *some* of looking down on and bashing those who say they can't afford to retire. And it seems this accusation is based more on those folks reading what they want to into other posts, than on what the poster actually intended.
What I'm talking about are reactions to comments where posters, in response to questions asked about how they were able to retire, state they saved money from the time they were young, lived simply and within their means, that type of thing. Maybe the poster even believes that others ought to do the same things he said he did, but IMO that's not finger pointing or judgement against others not in his situation. The reaction to Mathjak's posts where he lists measures that can be undertaken to enable one to be a little more financially set to retire, IMO that's information, not accusations. He's been accused of being "preachy" at best, and I can't see where he aimed those posts at anyone in particular. I certainly haven't done everything he included in his posts, but I'm not about to think he's criticizing me for not doing so.
It's really matter of choice whether or not to be offended at anything someone says, and IMO it's rather immature to take offense where it's not meant.
As always, what Travelassie says.
Taking responsibility for one's own actions and reactions, learning not to take everything personally, taking what works in my life and leaving the rest, these really are part of becoming a mature adult. These are some of things I have learned and appreciated most as I age--things that have made my life immeasurably less complicated and happier. Which is why I am always a little disappointed at the level of bickering on the forum where I would most expect a little more wisdom and perspective, to be honest.
I'd agree, if someone specifically addresses others with remarks like that, ie "I did, why don't you", or "you must have spent your money on...(plug in items), those remarks are uncalled for as they are critical of others and are based on assumptions they don't know are true about those others. I'd never say that others don't make those remarks ( because I know there are some who do), but I haven't seen them in this thread. Maybe I have missed them, but I have seen a number of posts accusing *some* of looking down on and bashing those who say they can't afford to retire. And it seems this accusation is based more on those folks reading what they want to into other posts, than on what the poster actually intended.
What I'm talking about are reactions to comments where posters, in response to questions asked about how they were able to retire, state they saved money from the time they were young, lived simply and within their means, that type of thing. Maybe the poster even believes that others ought to do the same things he said he did, but IMO that's not finger pointing or judgement against others not in his situation. The reaction to Mathjak's posts where he lists measures that can be undertaken to enable one to be a little more financially set to retire, IMO that's information, not accusations. He's been accused of being "preachy" at best, and I can't see where he aimed those posts at anyone in particular. I certainly haven't done everything he included in his posts, but I'm not about to think he's criticizing me for not doing so.
It's really matter of choice whether or not to be offended at anything someone says, and IMO it's rather immature to take offense where it's not meant.
Most of us are mature enough not to take personal offense. Some just really tire of the indirect insults that imply we were not careful, in fact were stupid, with our income and money. Just not the case in so many cases. That said, more direct advice and specific information, and less proselytyzing, is almost always appreciated.
Most of us are mature enough not to take personal offense. Some just really tire of the indirect insults that imply we were not careful, in fact were stupid, with our income and money. Just not the case in so many cases. That said, more direct advice and specific information, and less proselytyzing, is almost always appreciated.
Indeed. Of course.
It just seems that when one shares one's experience it should be taken at face value, learned from (if possible, if it applies), or discarded (if it doesn't apply). Instead there is often the assumption and characterization that one is bragging, judging, preaching, or chastizing. Which I really do rarely see overtly done, in fact, but often see posters accused of doing.
Then again, another thing I have learned with age is that one should not waste one's time explaining oneself to those who are determined to misunderstand them.
Most of us are mature enough not to take personal offense. Some just really tire of the indirect insults that imply we were not careful, in fact were stupid, with our income and money. Just not the case in so many cases. That said, more direct advice and specific information, and less proselytyzing, is almost always appreciated.
It seems to me though, at least from what I've read here, that those "indirect insults" and implications are projected by the reader into the posts coming under such criticism, not necessarily made or intended by the poster who made those comments. And accusing someone of "proselytizing" when what they're actually doing is listing information falls under the same category. As I said, reading something into a comment not intended by a poster, and taking offense, or even "getting tired" of what you think someone meant in a post, is a choice you make. It's not just here, you see it everywhere, and the divisiveness it fosters ( or maybe comes about as a result) is just sad, IMO.
It just seems that when one shares one's experience it should be taken at face value, learned from (if possible, if it applies), or discarded (if it doesn't apply). Instead there is often the assumption and characterization that one is bragging, judging, preaching, or chastizing. Which I really do rarely see overtly done, in fact, but often see posters accused of doing.
Then again, another thing I have learned with age is that one should not waste one's time explaining oneself to those who are determined to misunderstand them.
I know the posters on here pretty well, and I don't think anyone's determined not to understand. The financial "info" given is cryptic, at best. It is not broken down for different levels of risk tolerance or asset level and so it winds up being a one-size-fits-all post that, if you read back over the years, often carries quite a bit of recrimination that backtracks over years that cannot be easily corrected. But then, maybe some of the advice posts are not really meant to be understood by all, just guessing.
It seems to me though, at least from what I've read here, that those "indirect insults" and implications are projected by the reader into the posts coming under such criticism, not necessarily made or intended by the poster who made those comments. And accusing someone of "proselytizing" when what they're actually doing is listing information falls under the same category. As I said, reading something into a comment not intended by a poster, and taking offense, or even "getting tired" of what you think someone meant in a post, is a choice you make. It's not just here, you see it everywhere, and the divisiveness it fosters ( or maybe comes about as a result) is just sad, IMO.
As a number of us have said, we appreciate the advice, without the commentary about how some made it big and others didn't (not talking about just lately, but over many years, so you'd have to read back quite few threads and posts ). Well-intentioned, specific advice is good, and in my experience, well-taken here.
having i-phones , driving new cars and every sports channel on cable without having a private disability insurance policy may be the most popular.
i talked a co-worker into getting one years ago when i took mine . it was pretty cheap and very important in my mind..
well when parkinsons did him in he now gets 80%of his salary tax free. he thanks me every time i see him.
other folks take no control of their lives to make positive things happen. they drift though life like a cork in water.
no financial goals and no effort to meet those goals since they do not exist. i know i was working 3 jobs in the course of a week for quite a while when my savings goals were not being met. i was working for an hvac company as a tech , a drummer doing gigs on weekends and had my own hvac side business at night.
i ended up switching careers from pro drummer to going to school for hvac when disco and dj's were killing my career path.
big screen tv's and new cars over an emergency fund.
being to comfortable in low end jobs and never progressing.
life can be filled with so many different things that really could have had different outcomes down the rode with just more attention paid to the basics of good financial health and better career paths.
you can take almost any 2 people in the same life and the outcomes will be different.
again , not everyone but enough lives would have had different outcomes with different choices and better decisions made .
you see it all the time watching these shows like dateline where they zoom in on the lives of people struggling and you say to yourself what were they thinking when they made that decision to buy the big house or the expensive cars with little savings to back up job loss-illness or divorce.
you know one of those three will get almost all of us at some point of our lives. i had two out of three myself , at 50 i had divorce , at 58 i had job loss. it happens
mathjak: I hope you saw my post, I consider you a valuable member of this board and enjoy your contribution. But posts like this do appear to be judgemental and can certainly be seen as condescending. Particularly to those with "low end jobs and never progressing"
Me? I'm still trying to wrap my arms around the idea of losing a career path to disco.
mathjak: I hope you saw my post, I consider you a valuable member of this board and enjoy your contribution. But posts like this do appear to be judgemental and can certainly be seen as condescending. Particularly to those with "low end jobs and never progressing"
Travelassie and Montana, the post Dave quotes, above, is but one example of the kind of post that is not needed here. Coming from such a learned and financially savvy participant, it really gets harmfully in the way.
Maybe we can divide Retirement threads into two camps, those with "portfolios" and those without. Hehehe.
I think perhaps you're onto something. There are already investing and economics forum. Perhaps it makes sense to have discussions about investing and economics in those forums, and use this forum for other retirement-related topics.
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). Well-intentioned, specific advice is good, and in my experience, well-taken here.
