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Big difference between homosexuality and child abuse, and yet you use them together. You know, I assume, that one can be homosexual and abstinent, just as one can be heterosexual and abstinent. Homosexuality is a state of being and not an action.
It is very clear that homosexuality in the Catholic Church involved sex. In addition that behavior had cult like following and acceptance. That maybe totally acceptable behavior for the general public but it is the height of hypocrisy for those who support all sorts of sexual taboos and proclaim abstinence. I do agree sex involving minors was worse, but also clearly tolerated and covered up. None of these scandals started recently. They have been going on for centuries.
Big difference between homosexuality and child abuse, and yet you use them together.
One thing I've become a lot less willing to accept in my old age is self-ratifying rhetoric some try to use to rationalize hatred for people who don't subscribe to their dogma. Partly it is a reflection of my having come to learn and understand the constructive purpose for religion in society. Partly it is a reflection of my concern for how such offensive rhetoric by some casts all of us religious folks in a bad light. However, in this case, the key aspect of that statement is claiming abstinence and the practice of hypocrisy with regard to that standard so I think that placing any significance in both things being in the same list is taking the comment out of context.
It's true about the catholic church and I was in that "program" for years and into my 30's when I FINALLY started my questioning.
The opulance for one thing, we have a cathedral in my town that is full of marble, gems, gold etc etc and I won't step in there anymore.
While on a trip to a little village in Mexico years back, we went into a gem ridden catholic church and saw the poor on their knees and giving their last monies to the church. That trip really was a big turning point too.
And these priests are taken care of for life.
I listen to Blase Bonpaine on radio here, he's a former priest Activist and wrote a book, Imagine No Religion, I own it and he left the church and married a former nun, they have two great adult children and grandkids. He's still doing his activist works.
The book is on Amazon he talks about his life and I so enjoyed reading it.
Less religious, although that has been a longtime affair.
We find more peace/serenity in listening to nature, looking at sunrises/sunsets, the Aurora Borealis , seeing the waves crash onto Lake Superior than we ever did from an Abrahamic religion.
It is very clear that homosexuality in the Catholic Church involved sex. In addition that behavior had cult like following and acceptance. That maybe totally acceptable behavior for the general public but it is the height of hypocrisy for those who support all sorts of sexual taboos and proclaim abstinence. I do agree sex involving minors was worse, but also clearly tolerated and covered up. None of these scandals started recently. They have been going on for centuries.
My objection to the phrasing of your post was that you placed "acceptance of homosexuality" and "acceptance of child abuse" (I assume you are referring to sexual abuse, which could have been perpetrated against female children as well) as if they were equally wrong, or that they somehow go together.
The first, "acceptance of homosexuality" indicates an attitude of tolerance for people who are what they are, and can't change that. I consider tolerance of a human condition, which harms no one, to be a virtue. The second, child abuse, is a disgusting criminal act that should never be tolerated by anyone, much less a religious body, which not only tolerated it, but hid it, and protected the perpetrators.
Along these lines, I had a friend who was raised by an abusive father who raped her when she was eleven and continued to abuse her until she was eighteen and out of the house. Later on he turned the entire family against her when she tried to tell one of her brothers.
Her rotten father was a bible thumping born again Christian who condemned her to Hell.
My friend truly believed there was life on other planets because she wanted to believe there was something better than humans existing out there. She died of Cancer in her mid fifties still hoping. I sincerely hope she found there was.
Love, love, love this one. Yeah, religion has become "marketing" and we all know that marketing is just "recruitment". Too bad that mankind had to screw it all up. Religion is about "market share" period and has little to do with God.
Religion has always been a tool in pushing agendas which have noting directly to do with it. And religion has served to isolate and seperate us just as often as its united anyone. But maybe that's the wrong word. Faith is not about one 'religion' but something far more etherial. One can have faith without being religious. Religions tend toward creating rules to take control of populations and are used by rulers as hammers to make sure. But you can be 'religious' without faith, follow all the rules and say the right words. And you can have faith without practicing religion.
Faith is an inner thing. Maybe there is an energy that exists all places. When the big bang demolished the physical place which came before us, that energy existed, and when we, all the life in this new universe, came and comes to be, faith is there when its time.
One of the best conversations I've ever had was about how faith can change your life, and the rewards of it. She liked my pent, and was curious. She shared what her connection with god meant to her. She was very deeply christan and Jesus centered. My belief is very different, but for both of us faith has yeilded a wider view, and as part of life, was a core part of life. She wasn't trying to convert me and I wasn't her. But the feelings inside were much the same.
Next life may be different, and the life my spirit lives lead it down different paths, but that is merely the mechanics.
Last edited by nightbird47; 06-20-2017 at 01:50 PM..
My family was torn apart by my sister being 'born again', and disowning her father (a respected deacon in his church, and leader of multiple family-oriented charities) because he wasn't 'her' faith. It nearly killed my mom, who mourned until her death as to what 'she' did to alienate her only daughter. We couldn't console her that it had nothing to do with her. On her dying bed, she desperately wanted to see her daughter, who wouldn't come to see her because she married dad- who was beneath her religious belief. Mom died grieving, but with two grieving sons by her side.
Religion is a hammer that regards people as nails. I wouldn't be surprised if the church doesn't eventually release a songs album out: "Our Greatest Hits".
You start to realize that there is a God and religion in general is just plain politics.
Pretty much this. I believe in a higher power, a creator of the universe and humankind. I don't believe in church.
I visited my parents' church a couple of months ago and there was a band playing, people wearing t-shirts and shorts, and a feel good message from the preacher. I went upstairs and saw a cube farm that looked like it belonged in a corporate office. This same church has two billboards, one right next to the freeway.
The preacher is a former engineer and said he left to start the church. He has talked about some shady people at the company where he worked, so I kind of wonder if he was fired or about to be fired, and this was his Plan B. The church just seems so businessy to me.
Churches aren't required to disclose their financial information, so you have no idea how much the people at the top are making.
I am not nor have I ever been a very religious person. I do believe in a "God" but don't subscribe to any particular dogmas.
One thing I've noticed with the retirees I know is that many seem to become increasingly religious and introspective as time passes and they realize they don't have too much time left in this world. I think some were simply too busy with work, raising children, and day to day responsibilities to honestly give religion much thought, and now have more time to attend services, etc.
Did you find yourself become more interested in religion in your old age/retirement? Why or why not?
OP you are so off in your middle paragraph. Introspection would be good at any age. If you believe, time on Earth has nothing to do with it.
To me, as I age I seek meaning and the Bible is an excellent source of thought especially the words in red. Nothing more or less. I am less religious as I age but have a greater faith.
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