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Hmmm. Poor Dave does not know that someone he trusted enough to share his personal financial information with, is using that info to spread judgement. Or, MAYBE he does know better and therefore makes numbers up.
Also, many people with low income will exaggerate how well they are doing in order not to worry their loved ones. If this is true in Daves case, he obviously did a good job.
That's why I used a fake name. His name is not 'Dave'. And no judgement on my part because Dave worked hard for more years than many of us. Dave was born and lived all his life in NYC. And if everyone making less than 500K per year moved out of NYC, the city would collapse and there would be no one there to make your latte. Or serve your dinner. Or walk your dog. Dave lived and worked there performing a necessary service. All the Daves in the world made it possible for all the better than Daves. We would have a lot less millionaires if we had to do all the menial service jobs for ourselves.
I think Dave deserves the benefits he gets. He isn't cheating anyone. In my opinion I think if we want to be angry about Dave and others like him, we should be angry with the system that allowed Dave to be under paid and finally leave the workforce without enough benefits accrued to afford him a decent life. And I said decent, not extravagant. I am happy for Dave that he has enough for a decent life.
People need to know what's out there if they qualify. Younger people need to know if they work those service jobs all their life, this is what their retirement will look like. That job that just barely covers basic living expenses may not be worth having. And doing those jobs in a high COL place like NYC or SFO is a recipe for disaster long term. Knowing Dave taught me some lessons I would have been better off knowing when I was younger. That's why I shared his story. Anonymously!
Dave came over for Thanksgiving and we had a good time. And he is still doing fine. I will probably see him today to drop off some turkey soup I made. Life goes on! Have or have not, you just do the best you can with what you have.
That's why I used a fake name. His name is not 'Dave'. And no judgement on my part because Dave worked hard for more years than many of us. Dave was born and lived all his life in NYC. And if everyone making less than 500K per year moved out of NYC, the city would collapse and there would be no one there to make your latte. Or serve your dinner. Or walk your dog. Dave lived and worked there performing a necessary service. All the Daves in the world made it possible for all the better than Daves. We would have a lot less millionaires if we had to do all the menial service jobs for ourselves.
I think Dave deserves the benefits he gets. He isn't cheating anyone. In my opinion I think if we want to be angry about Dave and others like him, we should be angry with the system that allowed Dave to be under paid and finally leave the workforce without enough benefits accrued to afford him a decent life. And I said decent, not extravagant. I am happy for Dave that he has enough for a decent life.
People need to know what's out there if they qualify. Younger people need to know if they work those service jobs all their life, this is what their retirement will look like. That job that just barely covers basic living expenses may not be worth having. And doing those jobs in a high COL place like NYC or SFO is a recipe for disaster long term. Knowing Dave taught me some lessons I would have been better off knowing when I was younger. That's why I shared his story. Anonymously!
Dave came over for Thanksgiving and we had a good time. And he is still doing fine. I will probably see him today to drop off some turkey soup I made. Life goes on! Have or have not, you just do the best you can with what you have.
Could Dave have sought out better paying employment or started a small business on the side? Could Dave have created a personal savings plan? Surely Dave knew he was getting older every day.
There are so many people who are living paycheck to paycheck. Most of my career was spent in non profit organizations. I worked at a homeless shelter for a few years & was/am amazed at how many were working but couldn't afford rent.
The cost of living can beat people down. It's easy to say a person should get a better job or save for retirement but what if you don't have the skills? Or, like me, when I was laid off during the recession & the only work I could find was 1/3 my previous salary? And, my investments also took a hit.
It's pretty easy to say it wouldn't happen to you, but it happened to a lot of people.
There are so many people who are living paycheck to paycheck. Most of my career was spent in non profit organizations. I worked at a homeless shelter for a few years & was/am amazed at how many were working but couldn't afford rent.
The cost of living can beat people down. It's easy to say a person should get a better job or save for retirement but what if you don't have the skills? Or, like me, when I was laid off during the recession & the only work I could find was 1/3 my previous salary? And, my investments also took a hit.
It's pretty easy to say it wouldn't happen to you, but it happened to a lot of people.
I was unemployed from mid-2011 to mid-2013. I know that it happens. However, we can't let a temporary crisis permanently alter our income. In the example above, take the job that pays 1/3 salary if that is all you can get. BUT the key is to always keep looking for better jobs. Do internal job promotions or change companies to get back to the salary you need. Don't just give up and permanently accept less. Get better job skills.
At the time I was 55 & it was the beginning of the recession. There were a lot of us 'elders' who were laid off & unable to find jobs that were equivalent to our former employment.
I was more than willing to take lower pay, just to work but was over qualified for many positions. I'm just thankful I was able to hold on until I was able to retire.
Could Dave have sought out better paying employment or started a small business on the side? Could Dave have created a personal savings plan? Surely Dave knew he was getting older every day.
Sure he could have, could have, could have. And hind sight is always 20/20. If he was to start over today I bet he would do a lot of things differently. Most of us probably would. It's human nature to believe if you work hard your situation will improve. Sometimes it does but not always. I think it's a safe bet that most of the service workers(low wage) in NYC don't have much in savings. Dave never married or had kids because he couldn't afford them so he had no one to move in with when he got older.
If we want people to do these jobs, we have to realize the day has to come when they will retire from the workforce. If we want them, we have to pay for them. I think it would be much better if we paid them enough to live on from the get go. And SS is the only pension plan these folks will ever see. And it was deducted from their paycheck every week.
Dave's original plan was to work till he died. But a nasty fall on snow and ice right outside the subway entrance changed all that. After he had knee surgery and was forced to use a cane, he could no longer do what he had done all his life, wait tables. It also eliminated most other low wage jobs that insist you stand or walk all the time. In the big scheme of things, most people who work low wage jobs can't work till they die because old people and physical jobs usually leads to injuries. I know this and Dave probably did too.
I see your point, but nonetheless I find it somewhat galling that I pay for my own housing, and in addition I am required against my will to pay for other people's housing. And in place of the word "housing" you can substitute or add a number of other words, such as "food".
And no, I do not spend a lot of time obsessing about the injustice of it all. I am indeed content with my own circumstances and I engage in more than negligible charitable giving. But any informed person is going to be aware of such things.
Edited to add a disclaimer: No, I do not find it "galling" that my tax dollars are going to support people who are legitimately disabled. It's all the others that I find galling.
But what you're forgetting - what everyone seems to be forgetting - is that the majority of people who receive government benefits work. And that means they pay taxes, too.
So you're upset that you had to pay for my subsidized housing? Well, what do you think I've been doing all my life, playing stix on my toes? I worked just like you. I paid taxes just like you. Disabled has nothing to do with it, for the most part. I was on food stamps when I lost my job in 2010 and was on unemployment, looking for another. Many people working low wage jobs are accepting welfare and food stamps because they can't afford to pay rent, food, and utilities with the wages they get.
How do you think they feel when they hear that you, a working person like them, doesn't like "supporting" them? When it comes to your tax cuts and mortgage deductions, ever think that maybe they don't like supporting you, either?
In a way, it's kind of ironic when you work and you know your taxes are supporting yourself. When I was living in my truck (AND working full time AND going full time to college), I didn't need food stamps then. But I still remember checking out in the grocery store and having the clerk ask me if I would like to donate to help the homeless. Sometimes I would put a few quarters in the jar, and sometimes I would pick up my groceries and tell him, "I just did."
We all know it's best to retire rich. But second best may well be poor! I now have serious doubts the folks who are sacrificing a middle class lifestyle to save for retirement are really doing themselves a favor. Especially since they will be able to do little but exist. No fun, no trips/vacations, etc. No spending, just basic living.
A few months ago I posted about my SO's cousin, 'Dave'. Dave moved from NYC to Vegas because the COL is so much lower. He is 65 and low income. He worked all his life as a server/restaurant manager. But he never made much money. Because he lived in NYC, he never owned property. This is one of the keys. Own no property. He also can't have a big bank account. Learning about Dave has taught me a lot. I have been educated since last February when he moved here.
Dave's income from SS and a small pension is 1K per month. He qualifies for every aid program out there. And he has a great life now. No worries! He came out better than I would have ever imagined. Here's how it breaks down.
1) Housing. He got a 1br brand new apartment in a nice safe area of town. About 800SF. It's senior subsidized housing and his rent should not go up. He pays $495 per month and that includes utilities! He can keep that apartment at 70 degrees all summer long. He pays $35 per month for cable. His landline is free because he has some hearing loss. His cell phone is free because he gets SNAP(foodstamps). The apartment complex provides transportation to shopping every week. Every day they provide coffee/drinks and snacks for anyone who wants them. Dave was on a waiting list for the apartment for about 3 months.
2) Transportation. He can get a reduced fare bus pass for $30 per month. He prefers to get the $2 24 hour unlimited ride passes because he doesn't go out every day. He figures it is less expensive to buy the day pass. If he needs to go to medical appointments, his healthcare provider sends a car to pick him up for free.
3) Medical. His healthcare plan is Senior Dimensions and he pays no co-pays or premiums. His prescriptions are free too. Medicaid is his secondary, part D, and again no premiums. Everything is covered and it's all free. He has better medical than most seniors. No deductibles either.
4) Food. He gets $159.00 per month in SNAP(foodstamps). He has a local food pantry he can go to for free twice a month. 3 Squares brings him food once a month to his apartment complex. He can go to the USDA foodbank once a month. He has to spend very little of his own money for food. He probably spends $20 per month on incidentals. Shampoo, soap, deodorant, paper towels, toilet paper, etc.
After all his needs are met and his bills are paid, he has almost $600 per month to spend as he pleases. He can afford a modest vacation once or twice a year. He came out better than I thought was possible. Being poor and old doesn't have to be a nightmare!
Don't be jealous. Dave's life isn't as good as you seem to think. In fact, I wonder if this is just a post to complain about assistance for the elderly.
Dave is a prisoner of his poverty. He can't live where he wants. He can't own a house. He has to live where someone tells him to, and there are restrictions associated with that. If he has a gf he wants to move in, he's outta luck.
People with "some hearing loss" don't get free landlines where I live. So Dave must live somewhere where he gets that, if he wants it.
He would qualify for SOME foodstamps, intended to be supplemental to what he buys with his own money. There are restrictions on what he can buy with foodstamps.
Cell phone - cell phones are super cheap, so not that much of a benefit, but I'm sure it's a help to Dave. I pay $100 a year for TracFone (1,200 minutes that roll over perpetually). So that's less than $10/month, but hey, Dave could buy some veggies to make salads with that. Initial cost of phone was $15 I think. I upgraded once, but TracFone sent that to me free of charge (they ceased servicing my version).
Transportation - He'd be out of luck where I live. There is no public transportation. So Dave can't live where he wants. He has to live where there is public transportation. He could live where he could walk, but it's a matter of time when he won't be able to walk far. He has to wait in the rain and cold for that public transportation.
Medical - the medical care he gets is not the same as the care one gets from Medicare. I know. My sister was on Medicaid. It's very poor health care, to the extent it exists at all. Dave has to live somewhere where there are providers who will accept poverty health care patients. Not all places have those providers. We have one hospital in town that will take Medicaid patients, and it's pretty far away. Dave would probably die before he got there, if he had a life threatening emergency.
Would you want to live like Dave? Being told where to live, how to live? Having to walk to the bus stop and wait in the rain, esp if you're sick and on the way to your doctor? And there will likely be hours of wait time to see the dr. That's the way it is for poverty health care. Going to one dr. could be a dawn to dusk time thing.
Under the new tax bill, Dave may have a cut in income.
Who do you think is paying to subsidize his style of living.
I wouldn't call Dave's living a style, since that implies a choice in living. He is getting by. As for who is paying, we all do. Including Dave. He pays taxes, too, to subsidize the roads you drive on, the deductions you get on your tax return, the testing of water quality by your city, the street lights, etc. All the things that subsidize YOUR lifestyle and have made it possible for you to prosper. I'm sure Dave would thank you for your subsidizing his necessities in his situation, just as I'm sure you would thank Dave for subsidizing yours.
We in the United States of America don't leave our most vulnerable to starve and beg in the streets like some other countries do.
After all his needs are met and his bills are paid, he has almost $600 per month to spend as he pleases. He can afford a modest vacation once or twice a year. He came out better than I thought was possible. Being poor and old doesn't have to be a nightmare!
Really? Where does someone go on vacation $600 a month? The woods?
Dave’s life sounds like he is getting by on his SS and pension (which he paid for) along with some measure of safety net. Anyone who thinks this guy is gaming the system is distracted by a shiny object. I’m more concerned about billionaires who are about to enact a law that will transfer billions of dollars their way from millions who dependent on it to get by in today’s world. It seems a bigger priority of inequities in our system to be concerned about. YMMV
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