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Old 07-15-2016, 05:35 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
4,018 posts, read 3,271,361 times
Reputation: 6537

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Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
Unfortunately if you wait the decision to get LTCi may be made for you if you wait. What is stopping you from getting a policy today that will cover you today and that you could drop later if you had no need?

Was it the money? How much do you anticipate costs to be over your coverage period? I posted my expected expense over 30 years and it come out to about $70,000 for a Cadillac policy that I would not be able to get now if I had waited. All for the costs of a pack of smokes a day! An people passed on it almost 20 years ago!
You should go back and read my response. Your math was off; if it starts at $1000 a year and doubles every 10 years in even increments across the years then your cost will be over $100K for 30 years.
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Old 07-15-2016, 05:41 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,776 posts, read 1,600,800 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
You should go back and read my response. Your math was off; if it starts at $1000 a year and doubles every 10 years in even increments across the years then your cost will be over $100K for 30 years.
NO I did not say it increases in even yearly increments. I said it doubles every 10 years for a total of $70,000. Pay attention.
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:08 PM
 
31,066 posts, read 37,339,102 times
Reputation: 13353
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
Unfortunately if you wait the decision to get LTCi may be made for you if you wait. What is stopping you from getting a policy today that will cover you today and that you could drop later if you had no need?

Was it the money? How much do you anticipate costs to be over your coverage period? I posted my expected expense over 30 years and it come out to about $70,000 for a Cadillac policy that I would not be able to get now if I had waited. All for the costs of a pack of smokes a day! An people passed on it almost 20 years ago!
Yup and may have passed on a number of other future aging/retirement possibilities.
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:30 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
4,018 posts, read 3,271,361 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
NO I did not say it increases in even yearly increments. I said it doubles every 10 years for a total of $70,000. Pay attention.
I thought you were assuming that over the course of 10 years it would double when you said "I assumed rates would double every ten years" because the way rate increases generally work is with more frequency that just once a decade. Take a look at this:

Why Long-term Care Insurance Is Becoming a Tougher Call

A few excerpts from that recent article:
Quote:
Her monthly premiums have nearly quadrupled over the past two years.
...
New Yorkers who bought long-term care insurance from Genworth, one of the few remaining carriers, were hit with a 60% premium increase in October. The same company has asked Pennsylvania state regulators for permission to raise premiums by as much as 130% for some policyholders.

In California, an estimated 133,000 residents who bought long-term care policies from CALPERS, the state workers’ retirement plan, have seen their premiums rise by 85% over two years.
so if you think the rates will only double and you will only be hit with one increase every ten years, I hope you have it in writing. I believe it is much more likely that you will pay about 10 times the average of the first and last year premium over a period as long as a decade rather than having no increases during it.
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:10 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,776 posts, read 1,600,800 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
I thought you were assuming that over the course of 10 years it would double when you said "I assumed rates would double every ten years" because the way rate increases generally work is with more frequency that just once a decade. Take a look at this:

Why Long-term Care Insurance Is Becoming a Tougher Call

A few excerpts from that recent article:so if you think the rates will only double and you will only be hit with one increase every ten years, I hope you have it in writing. I believe it is much more likely that you will pay about 10 times the average of the first and last year premium over a period as long as a decade rather than having no increases during it.
I HAVE had my LTCi for almost TWO decades and my increases only happened in the last couple of years. So on average I paid $1,000 a year for about 15 years and then it is going to about $3000 a year over maybe 5 years so I actually have about $15,000 plus $15,000 = $30,000 for two decades. EXACTLY what I guesstimated almost 2 decades early. And I can drop my premiums to about $500 a year IF I give up my LIFETIME INFLATION protected coverage. Amazing how much value they put on that coverage even tho we ALL know the number of people that will need that is about 2, right? Ha Ha And it is ONLY costing me the price of a pack of smokes a day!

Your estimates would have me at almost $20,000 a year! You over shot by $17,000.
I can see why people don't buy when they don't use actual numbers.

In your link they don't tell you what her premiums were. If she was paying $500 then is $2000 twenty years later really that bad? And then she doesn't realize that she has had TWENTY years of protection probably pretty damn cheap.

If there was a government program that would pay your car insurance you bet there'd be people complaining about car insurance hikes. Heck, we have to pass laws to MAKE people buy car insurance. Some people need to be protected from their own poor decisions.

Look for your self and don't give into the fear mongering,
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:24 PM
 
31,066 posts, read 37,339,102 times
Reputation: 13353
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
I thought you were assuming that over the course of 10 years it would double when you said "I assumed rates would double every ten years" because the way rate increases generally work is with more frequency that just once a decade. Take a look at this:

Why Long-term Care Insurance Is Becoming a Tougher Call

A few excerpts from that recent article:so if you think the rates will only double and you will only be hit with one increase every ten years, I hope you have it in writing. I believe it is much more likely that you will pay about 10 times the average of the first and last year premium over a period as long as a decade rather than having no increases during it.
Our fixed rate is in writing and hasn't changed in 15 years. They tried to up it one year and got hammered by our professional association and rescinded the increase and never a boo since. The no increase is part of the policy and part of the cost which by current standards is low.
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Old 07-16-2016, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
5,246 posts, read 5,550,363 times
Reputation: 7491
TuborgP and honobob if it is not too much of a personal question can you share with us a few answers to questions people could be struggling with.

1) Did you in purchasing your LTCi opt to cover a high COL area amount like in the 5 to 6k monthly amount?

2) Or did you opt for a lower amount of 3k per month expecting to take some of the cost up with your income stream?

(Note the amount I am asking is the pay out amount and not premiums.)

3) Are your plans employer sponsored group plans?

4) Are you both married and did that factor heavily in your decision?

Thanks in advance.

I know that it will be important for those on the fense deciding on whether or not to pick up LTCi. I advocate picking up LTCi for a good majority of people for many reasons. I do not work for any insurance company so do not think I am trying to sell you anything. The future is uncertain and even if you do have LTCi it might not be enough but it certainly will be better than having nothing should the need arise. Even if you do not opt for LTCi knowing some of the problems people have had and how they dealt with the situations is very helpful.

Last edited by oldsoldier1976; 07-16-2016 at 04:33 AM.. Reason: clarification of a question.
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Old 07-16-2016, 04:44 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
4,018 posts, read 3,271,361 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
...
My LTCi premiums started just under $1,000 a year and I assumed rates would double every ten years. So $10,000 the first decade and $20,000 the second decade
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
I HAVE had my LTCi for almost TWO decades and my increases only happened in the last couple of years. So on average I paid $1,000 a year for about 15 years and then it is going to about $3000 a year over maybe 5 years so I actually have about $15,000 plus $15,000 = $30,000 for two decades. EXACTLY what I guesstimated almost 2 decades early.
You have the same outlay, but what you guessed is not exactly what happened. That's not just picking nits for the sake of argument. A recent tripling after 15 years of no increases is very different than having it go up over time in a more orderly fashion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
Your estimates would have me at almost $20,000 a year! You over shot by $17,000.
No, I was using your assumptions and assuming 1k in year 1, 2k in year 10 and 3k in year 20. But I was assuming a smoother transition between premiums.

I have been shopping policies with agents (not just using estimators) and started with the intent of buying but really having a hard time justifying it when I run numbers, especially after finding out how little protection there is against rate increases (even "guaranteed rates" have fine print). There is a reason that less than 5% of people have coverage.
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Old 07-16-2016, 07:20 AM
 
31,066 posts, read 37,339,102 times
Reputation: 13353
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfingduo View Post
TuborgP and honobob if it is not too much of a personal question can you share with us a few answers to questions people could be struggling with.

1) Did you in purchasing your LTCi opt to cover a high COL area amount like in the 5 to 6k monthly amount?

2) Or did you opt for a lower amount of 3k per month expecting to take some of the cost up with your income stream?

(Note the amount I am asking is the pay out amount and not premiums.)

3) Are your plans employer sponsored group plans?

4) Are you both married and did that factor heavily in your decision?

Thanks in advance.

I know that it will be important for those on the fense deciding on whether or not to pick up LTCi. I advocate picking up LTCi for a good majority of people for many reasons. I do not work for any insurance company so do not think I am trying to sell you anything. The future is uncertain and even if you do have LTCi it might not be enough but it certainly will be better than having nothing should the need arise. Even if you do not opt for LTCi knowing some of the problems people have had and how they dealt with the situations is very helpful.
Ours is currently $289 per day with a 5% inflation factor. Also 60 day elimination period and unlimited benefits no cap. In home medial assistance with a life time cap of 189K and I right off the top don't remember the elimination period. No employer involvement was bought through our professional association with no employer impact. Married with wife and I have having our own identical plan. Our retirement is based on a providing a substantially secured retirement for the surviving spouse.
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
4,291 posts, read 4,768,338 times
Reputation: 7985
One of my best decisions was purchasing a LTC policy 10 years ago and less than one month before my divorce. I got the marriage discount and my kids benefited from not worrying about their mom.
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