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IMHO, most employers don't like to hire seniors. But if they have jobs to fill, and the senior is there and can do the job, they'll put you to work. But expect prejudice because you're old, and can't move as fast as the younger ones.
I learned a hard lesson many years ago. It was the early 80's, and as most of you know, times were very bad in the manufacturing business, which was the field I was in. I saw managers at Caterpillar who had 30 years with a great work record dumped. One customer of mine was dumped six months before his retirement was fully vested. He ended up being a janitor. What I learned was don't expect any loyalty from an employer. Second, don't count on working till any particular age. Be ready to lose a job or your health. Live conservatively, save your money, plan for rainy days, because they often come.
That is exactly what I have observed. You could have a wonderful job at a wonderful company, and think you will stay there forever. Then management changes and decides to get rid of all the "dead wood" (translation: old people).
They might fire you, or they might just make your life hell. Making life hell for an employee is fun for some managers (no I am not insulting managers in general, only some, and a couple I have known personally).
Hanging on to a job where you don't feel valued is a drag. Having to go there every day and pretend everything is just fine, takes more energy than most old people have. It certainly took all of mine.
They can literally love you one minute and hate you the next. You drag yourself there every day, no matter what, perfect attendance, always on time, do everything you are told. You think you are a wonderful employee, and they said you were so you believe it. Then wam, you are too slow and a drain on the company, good bye.
Also Firing, voluntary, involuntary separation, layoff have different meaning and repercussions.
Adopting a cursing language in incorrect behavior. It reflects immaturity and stress. I have not adopted it and would resist it.
I agree 100% with on putting a STOP on raising retirement age. Government inefficiencies should be kept away from hardworking people.
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Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
I was a computer programmer for the past 20 years. I liked the work, and the longer I did it, the better I understood it.
But somehow I was perceived as old and stupid. I could not ask any questions because I would get the "you idiot" look if they thought I should have somehow known. Yet they asked each other stupid questions all the time.
My co-workers and manager were in their twenties and thirties, and they had a lot in common. I had nothing in common with them, except the work. Still, I tried very hard to get along with them and to be involved in their conversations. Young men in IT (information technology) curse a lot, and I normally don't. But in order to fit in, I started cursing and trying to be more like them.
I was at that company 4 years and got good reviews the first 3 years. But this year my boss suddenly decided I was too slow and fired me, with no warning.
I have good reasons to think one of my co-workers had been slandering me. He somehow got the idea I was stupid and nothing could change his mind.
Anyway, the point I am trying to make is -- sure it's great if someone loves their job and wants to continue working forever. They certainly should be allowed to.
But given the amount of age discrimination in certain fields, it just would not be fair to expect this of everyone. Also, some things like construction are just too physically demanding for most older people.
They should STOP raising the social security age. That makes me so mad, even though it does not affect me. Medical advances are NOT making people healthier. So many older people are sick or disabled.
I really feel that this kind of article can be harmful. It is nice to acknowledge that not everyone becomes senile at age 65. But that should not cause us to be resigned to working past 80.
If you have a wonderful boss, or you are your own boss, and you love your work, that is great. The majority, I suspect, are not so lucky.
As much as I loved my work, I hated having bosses and being at their mercy. That is why I was so careful to save money.
When my boss told me to get lost, 6 weeks ago, I did not have a heart attack, and I was not extremely surprised. I knew how they looked at me and I suspected what they thought about me. It was not a nice environment to be in.
Also Firing, voluntary, involuntary separation, layoff have different meaning and repercussions.
Adopting a cursing language in incorrect behavior. It reflects immaturity and stress. I have not adopted it and would resist it.
I agree 100% with on putting a STOP on raising retirement age. Government inefficiencies should be kept away from hardworking people.
Well, cursing in an IT department certainly cannot hurt, although maybe it doesn't help. Young IT guys try to use the F work at least once in every sentence. I only said it once in a while, hoping to prove I was one of them. It is just the way they talk, doesn't mean anything at all.
Didn't help me though. And now I have to remember NOT to curse.
IT and similar high tech jobs are difficult for older workers with lots of discrimination. The average age at many of these companies is the 20’s or low 30’s. I’m a 60 year old government engineer but not in a computer related field. I’ve been able to carve out my niche in a specialized safety area that requires lots of focus and training – started in that area 15 years ago. Fortunately this area is not likely to go out of favor in my agency.
Several years ago a guy in his late 60’s transferred into our group thinking it would be an interesting place to work. Well, he did not do very well as the learning curve was just too much for him. I do notice that my focus is not as good as it used to be and my memory and energy level, which have never been great, continue to deteriorate some. And I have not been updating my computer skills as much as I should but with one more year to go before retirement I don’t care.
My management has been trying to hire younger people because many of the current employees are within a few years of retirement. The new hires have lots of energy and enthusiasm, have good technical skills, are sharp, and are open to new management initiatives. I have seen similar initiatives come and go over the last 30 years so am less receptive.
Currently another older co-worker and myself are on an important project. My senior manager stopped by yesterday and expressed his gratitude that two experienced staff were working the issues. But there have been other projects that required more of a generalist, a lot of travel, quick turn around and not as much attention to detail where younger workers have been favored. Sometimes quantity is valued over quality. My management is probably looking forward to the day when some of us retire and they can replace us with younger workers.
I do notice that my focus is not as good as it used to be and my memory and energy level, which have never been great, continue to deteriorate some.
My management has been trying to hire younger people because many of the current employees are within a few years of retirement. The new hires have lots of energy and enthusiasm, have good technical skills, are sharp, and are open to new management initiatives.
The problem with age discrimination is that some of the stereotypes are true, and it is very hard to tell if an older worker fits the stereotypes or not.
I really have absolutely no idea if I was too slow or not. I didn't think I was, and had no evidence that I was. But my boss decided I was -- based on what? Maybe just his gut feeling that an older worker is slower. Maybe he was getting pressure from higher management to get work done faster. I have no idea.
I know that one of my co-workers, a 25 year old know-it-all, had complained about me to my boss last year, saying I was an idiot and should be fired. I knew because my boss told me. I asked my boss to please pay attention to my work and see if it was true. He gave me a time estimate on one project, and I was done in less time. I pointed that out, and he acknowledged it.
Aside from that project, my boss was not paying attention to my work, since he had other priorities, and also because he hated being a manager.
He allowed the young know-it-all to effectively become my supervisor. Everything I tried to accomplish was blocked or hindered by this guy. I had to re-write code ten times before he would approve it.
So yes, I guess that caused me to seem slow, because it was so hard to finish anything.
Meanwhile, the young know-it-all was valued and appreciated. I think it was mostly because of his energy and enthusiasm and confidence. I don't think he actually knew more about computers than I do. I don't think he actually worked faster -- but I can't be sure and have no way to know. We never had a race. We had no time estimates and no deadlines, so it was impossible for me to know how I was doing.
I also think I had a communication problem because I was always afraid to ask any questions. They asked each other questions all the time, but if I asked anything I usually got a condescending answer. There was no way they could ever respect me.
They (there were 4 young guys in the team) did some things that are almost universally considered wrong in software development. The most obvious example was they refused to write any unit tests, ever. I told them they were wrong, and tried to explain why, but of course they ignored anything I said.
So it's not like they knew more than I did, or followed better practices. I have no idea if they were faster, but I have reasons to doubt it (the one project I did that had a time estimate).
I think I was mainly forced out by the young know-it-all. Maybe he had a friend he wanted to get hired, or maybe he just hated me, I have no idea.
I also know other older computer programmers who had similar ordeals.
I have worked with individuals , some as old as 75, still it has to be said hanging onto their jobs. One older gentleman , in fact made it a life mission , a reason for being if you will , to stay as long as he can in the job. Nothing seemed to go through his mind other than guarding against young pretenders. When in fact the young people , would look upon him as a mass of insecurities and not the greatest role model in the world. Although he would remind anyone about how many years he worked in the job. We basically felt he should just retire and enjoy some life for once. What is another year or two of salary when he could be enjoying his last remaining years before his judgement became impaired and could no longer do the job.
So it does become a case of life/work balance and for anybody in their 70's still working with no intention of retiring , it is admirable in one sense but enjoy your remaining years doing what you love to do . Maybe if you are business owner who loves the job for example , but if doing a job you constantly gripe about , then why stay in misery?.
That was me. I retired as soon as I hit 60 and have absolutely no regrets or any desire to ever work again. My wife retired at the same time I did and now wants to go back to work. Fine by me, and I certainly won't complain about the extra $8k a month income.
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Originally Posted by selhars
^^ Your wife is going to go back to work at what age? How long has she been retired? What's she do…that's she'll come back into the work force earning 96K a year?
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Originally Posted by AlaskaErik
Contract position with her old employer. It also doesn't hurt to have some letters after your name.
I retired from my own trucking business at age 65, and still consult for that business, but I would never want to go back to work there.
Now I have a new company and enjoy my new passion -- raising pastured poultry. It's as many hours as I do or don't want to put into it. I sell chicken, turkey and geese to restaurants, and eggs to Asian markets. This year, we will be offering something called "turduckens" to local markets. In addition, we are raising our first 4 pigs, and it looks like expanding into pork will be a "go".
I don't worry about being old or slow, though I realize I am not an employee with other co-workers. I think a slower, more methodical work habit is natural as one ages and gains ever-more experience. The impetuousness of youth is not something I see as progress, or a benefit. Been there, done that.
I think older workers should stop trying to emulate youth, and concentrate more on what they do best -- observation, patience, creativity, determination, and ability to concentrate. Speed isn't everything!
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