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Replacements is a really cool place to visit. Very attractively laid out and china lovers will swoon. There are often informal tours of the storerooms and work stations as well. And did you know, they let their workers bring dogs with them to work?
Once you see the vast warehouse you will see why they need to pay you little and then sell for a lot more. They end up holding on to stuff for years if not forever. People today are rarely eager to 'complete their collections' or replace a single piece when it breaks.
It does feel sad that the era of formal dining at home is going away. I actually never bought china, but was instructed to pick some out by my mother (I was young when I married) and wound up with it for a wedding gift. I did enjoy those dining experiences, but I never would have paid such money myself.
This thread got me thinking though, about what each generation eschews about the last, and what became common. My paternal grandmother had china, but my maternal did not. And I wonder if the idea of china is really only a few generations old. And if it was about trying to emulate a monetary class we were not a part of. Or just to get a taste of such an experience.
I don't know if the generation before my grandparents had china. I wonder when formal dining at home came about for the average American.
I know for me, those massive meals were quite a bit of work, and I think the younger generation just doesn't want to put that sort of effort into it. I can understand that. It was a real pain to whirl around the house cleaning it, doing the prep, shopping, cooking, dishes; for something that lasted such a short amount of time. All that and a job, kids, scouts, church, soccer. It was too much.
I get why they don't see a use for it anymore. A fancy dinner out is a similar experience, and much less work/time.
I do wonder what will happen to all this wonderful china we all have.
With the industrial revolution and the rising middle classes in both Europe and USA that demographic was keen on emulating the "rich". Part of this was buying things that previously only that class mainly had such as large homes, china, crystal, silver, etc....
You also had the rise of that new invention "department stores", and or shops catering to the newly created wealthy middle classes. These stores sprung up with the specific goal of luring Mrs. Middle Class Housewife to spend her husband's money.
It had long been the tradition in royalty, nobility and other wealthy families for brides to bring trousseaux full of linens, china, silver, etc... More still was given as gifts from other equally wealthy families. By the early part of the 1900's and certainly by the 1940's this changed to include the middle classes and anyone else.
The industrial revolution created manufacturing processes that allowed mass production of china, silverware, silver plate, which in turn allowed for lower prices. Stores like Tiffany's would have several lines catering to not just the wealthy, but those a bit lower down on the economic scale.
One of the biggest things newly enriched (or those willing to go into debt) aped from the wealthy was giving their daughters huge dowries in terms of "goods". This could be directly from the family and or via gifts from family/friends.
Have an old copy of Vanderbilt's Etiquette from the 1950's. In it brides to be are strongly advised to ask for/obtain all the silver, fine china and crystal they could as wedding presents. Rationale behind this was "at no other time are persons so predisposed to being so generous". A new bride was warned that what may seem sufficient when first married may become lacking as her husband moved up in the business world, and thus she was expected to entertain in a certain fashion. We've all seen this in media (television, films, etc....) where a housewife is giving an "important" dinner but doesn't have this or that and or enough; so she pops next door to scrounge a silver serving platter, china, crystal, etc..
You'll remember from the 1950's film "Father of the Bride" Stanley Banks is so fixed on how the costs of his daughter's wedding is driving him to the poor house he becomes a grumpy mess. That is until the arrival of Kay's first gifts; a silver platter. It was then Mr. Banks realized things might not be so bad after all.
In due course the Banks living room becomes over flowing with tables set up to display all the china, silver, and other gifts sent to Kay. This custom that again began with royalty (one Romanov princess had an entire room full of jewels on display given to her as wedding gifts), and again moved down to the middle classes by even later 1800's. You displayed all those gifts as a sign of family wealth and importance. For the bride it meant she was going into her marriage with more than just what she stood up in. People gave best they could because it was expected when their daughter or son married you would do the same.
By the 1960's and certainly the 1970's much of this orgy of gift giving in silver, china, crystal, furs, etc... had died down or out. Young women (if they were bothering getting married at all and not shacking up instead) wanted more practical things.
This change was not universal nor speedy. You still had *executive* wives and others whose main job was to run the home front in support of their husband's careers. For that they gave parties and other functions that required a supply of sliver, china, and so forth.
Wedding gifts to Miss. Jacqueline Bouvier on display at Hammersmith farm.
One shining light in all this horde of vast consumption (wedding/marriage gifts) is that often a good part of it remained either little used or not at all. The vast hordes of NOS linens, bedding, small appliances, silver, china and other household things often come from estates of women that didn't touch the stuff.
We went to Replacements, drove up from SC. What an amazing place. You would not believe the silver rooms. As a lover of beautiful dishes, glasses and silver, I was amazed at the place. Very very interesting.
I had a huge set of Pfalzgraff Folk Art stoneware. Loads of pieces. It just went out of fashion, and was taking up too much space. We used it every day for years. Apparently, there is a big following for it, and there is even a club.
When I started out with it in the 1980s (I think), my MIL gave me a lot of it as a gift. I added to it over the years, and to begin with it was not that expensive. They gave me about $200 for it, which pleased me. We used the money to have a little mini vacation. Stayed in a hotel, had a lovely dinner out, and drove on the Blue Ridge Parkway. It was all worth it, and I felt so good about unloading it!
I have a very nice bone china set that I bought myself in the early 1990s. A department store was going out of business, and I bought it for a very reasonable price. It's not old fashioned, and is of a very sophisticated design, made by Mikasa. I love it, and use it for all holidays. I also have some nice crystal. I don't do silver. I also have a quite big collection of Hummel figurines. We lived in Germany for 3 years.
I put all my china and crystal in the dishwasher. If it breaks, it breaks, and I would not replace anything that broke. Nothing has broken yet though. I think dishwashers are a lot more gentle than they used to be.
Don't leave the china in the cabinet, use it! My children aren't interested in it. I've sold lots of cut glass items, and other things at a consignment shop. I have got everything down to things I really like and use.
Biggest nail in the coffin of formal dining at home was starting in the 1970's when large numbers of married women began working outside of the home. That trend has only increased in the succeeding decades and has had profound effects on all aspects of American family life.
It is all some women can do when they get home to put any sort of meal on table. By the weekends they likely are like anyone else; welcoming their time off and looking forward to some sort of relaxation. How much of it they will get is another matter, but the desire to spend one day of it in an orgy of cooking and cleaning that goes with formal dinners surely isn't high on their list.
Also standards have slipped.
Growing up in the 1970's never saw paper plates and plastic cups outside of BBQ's, picnics and other outdoor eating events. My mother then *NEVER* served any food indoors on anything else but the real thing. Fast forward to today often you find major family dinners such as Thanksgiving or Christmas served on "paper". It might be the high end stuff, but never the less it goes into the trash after use, not the dishwasher or sink. No one things anything of this outside a few "old maids" who often are quickly shot down with "are you going to wash, dry and put away all those dishes?".
Ironically the only households one knows that are still into using all that formal china, silver, crystal and whatever are gay couples.
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
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I actually dislike having meals on paper plates. Even when making dinner for just the two of us, I still use dishes and not paper. A lot of nights we do a FFY (Fend for yourself) and we use actual dishes.
I do not even have any in the house...Ooops, I take that back. When we lived in Philly, hubby would use a plastic spoon at work for his breakfast of oatmeal. So I have a box still in the pantry that made the move with us to Florida.....4 years ago! I think it is safe to say I will probably be tossing it...or not.
I'm not gay but I do like putting together a nice table when we have company for dinner. I think it shows that we care about our guests to take the time and effort to make it more like we are celebrating them coming over for dinner.
Usually the only thing that gets served on paper plates is pizza. I don't know, those two just go together
If throwing a party, then yes, paper and plastic. Intimate dinners of 8 or less, definitely not paper. Only because I don't have more than 8 place settings of either China or Fiesta ware. I hope to up that to at least 12 in the future for the Fiesta Ware.
I actually dislike having meals on paper plates. Even when making dinner for just the two of us, I still use dishes and not paper. A lot of nights we do a FFY (Fend for yourself) and we use actual dishes.
I do not even have any in the house...Ooops, I take that back. When we lived in Philly, hubby would use a plastic spoon at work for his breakfast of oatmeal. So I have a box still in the pantry that made the move with us to Florida.....4 years ago! I think it is safe to say I will probably be tossing it...or not.
I'm not gay but I do like putting together a nice table when we have company for dinner. I think it shows that we care about our guests to take the time and effort to make it more like we are celebrating them coming over for dinner.
Usually the only thing that gets served on paper plates is pizza. I don't know, those two just go together
If throwing a party, then yes, paper and plastic. Intimate dinners of 8 or less, definitely not paper. Only because I don't have more than 8 place settings of either China or Fiesta ware. I hope to up that to at least 12 in the future for the Fiesta Ware.
Should clarify.
One year we kids (like most of our cousins) simply got together and told our respective mothers if they wanted to take some of the load off huge family meals (like Thanksgiving) and wanted to use paper, we kids were fine with it, even the Dads agreed. Mind you our events like that easily range between fifteen to twenty five or more "families" meaning one or two adults plus kids. Prior to this change the females spent so much time in the kitchen just keeping up with clean dishes as each new set of guests arrived. We usually do the main meal at 3PM, but people tend to arrive later and of course guests come for cake and coffee afterwards.
Almost every year since one was old enough to remember my mother like others dragged out her fine china, crystal, silver and whatever for big holiday meals. It most always was untouched as people tended to use the "every day" stuff instead. As one of those kids who got dragooned into polishing all that silver and washing all that crystal *before* main event it soon became apparent to even my young mind it was a waste of time. Mother kept at it for years well after we all went to college, graduated and moved out.
My mother would die before serving "guests" a meal off paper plates for a "formal" sit down type of indoor meal. But then again growing up she was fond of saying she had "three dishwashers"; myself and two siblings.
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
Should clarify.
One year we kids (like most of our cousins) simply got together and told our respective mothers if they wanted to take some of the load off huge family meals (like Thanksgiving) and wanted to use paper, we kids were fine with it, even the Dads agreed. Mind you our events like that easily range between fifteen to twenty five or more "families" meaning one or two adults plus kids. Prior to this change the females spent so much time in the kitchen just keeping up with clean dishes as each new set of guests arrived. We usually do the main meal at 3PM, but people tend to arrive later and of course guests come for cake and coffee afterwards.
Almost every year since one was old enough to remember my mother like others dragged out her fine china, crystal, silver and whatever for big holiday meals. It most always was untouched as people tended to use the "every day" stuff instead. As one of those kids who got dragooned into polishing all that silver and washing all that crystal *before* main event it soon became apparent to even my young mind it was a waste of time. Mother kept at it for years well after we all went to college, graduated and moved out.
My mother would die before serving "guests" a meal off paper plates for a "formal" sit down type of indoor meal. But then again growing up she was fond of saying she had "three dishwashers"; myself and two siblings.
That makes more sense
With that many people, it is more of a party than an actual 'dinner'.
My mother had and used individual butter knives, shrimp cocktail forks, luncheon size and dinner sized silverware,ice tea spoons, demitasse spoons, soup spoons, individual salt and pepper for each place setting, and every serving piece you can imagine including jelly, cranberry sauce, meat forks, cake cutters, slotted spoons, pie server, etc. I have several of those big wooden boxes lined in felt with the sections for each kind of piece. I guess I could sell some of it to melt down for cash. or make wind chimes. I also have plated set my father got from saving box tops from cereal boxes.
My stainless flatware is from the Betty Crocker catalog.... cereal box tops, flour bags convenience foods... bought for a buck a piece, and very well loved and used daily....for 35 years. And yes, I have cream soup spoons, ice tea spoons, ice cream spoons, sea food forks...and butter spreaders...
I use it all, all the time. Seafood forks are especially good at spearing pickles, ice tea spoons for jelly jars...
My original dishes got broken, and the company sold to China, and the quality went way down...so I went for new dishes and frankly today's dishes are sort of blah. I like a design, but not floral. I hate floral. I also hate rims...I like a coupe shape. I tried one, but ended up with Fiestaware. I like multiple colors and the coupe shape.
I also love their stacking cereal bowls. They're small, and you can have a nicely filled bowl of cereal....that's actually a real serving size and and not half a box. No one needs a 22 ounce cereal bowl.
But even when I got married in 1983, although a lot of my friends wanted fine china, there were a lot us that really didn't. We couldn't see how that fit into our lifestyle, and didn't see the need....
And my niece who married three years ago? She got a Lenox pattern that has mugs instead of cups and saucers. A number of China patterns have mugs instead....
Ironically the only households one knows that are still into using all that formal china, silver, crystal and whatever are gay couples.
This has to be the most ridiculous statement of this thread! My husband of 40 years and I enjoy a nice table and meal from time to time as long as it is not for too many people. And as long as we are able to do it, we will continue. It's not often but enough to enjoy what we have worked hard to enjoy.
This has to be the most ridiculous statement of this thread! My husband of 40 years and I enjoy a nice table and meal from time to time as long as it is not for too many people. And as long as we are able to do it, we will continue. It's not often but enough to enjoy what we have worked hard to enjoy.
Statement was not meant to be an indictment nor general rule, but rather as one clearly said borne out of one's *OWN* recent experience. Obviously cannot nor did not intend to speak for the world at large.
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or make wind chimes. I also have plated set my father got from saving box tops from cereal boxes.
