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Old 04-04-2017, 10:49 AM
 
316 posts, read 229,221 times
Reputation: 936

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
In the end you will realize that all you have is your family. Do what you can to help but don't become an enabler of bad habits.

If your kids get into a pickle and need to temporarily move in while they deal with issues like job loss, illness, or divorce, let them do that as long as they work the problem and become self sufficient.

I live in a neighborhood of fairly large homes. They are mostly two story with finished walk out basements. I've noticed that quite a few of my neighbors have had their children and grandchildren move back in temporarily. Life is tougher now for the younger generations. They cannot all get excellent full time jobs with benefits.

I'm lucky that my kids were all well educated and are doing well. But they know that if they needed somewhere to live temporarily, our house is always available.

Most of my neighbors are in our same age bracket with similar homes. I'd noticed that they have not moved and downsized. Perhaps one reason is to preserve that safety net for their kids.

ITA with all you've said. At the end of a life, all you have is your family.

All our kids are well educated and working, but there have been times when each of them has needed to "bounce back" home for one good reason or another. We live in one of those large homes that makes it easier to accommodate them and we have no plan to downsize for many reasons, but one reason is that we want to preserve a safety net for our family.

Our daughter is about to move home temporarily. She has a great job in her field and is currently living in a townhome with her brother (paying her share of the rent), but because she has a sizable student loan for graduate work (completed her MS), she asked if she could move back home to pay off that loan and save for a downpayment on a condo. We said "yes" and we feel good about the arrangement and helping her bridge to the next phase of her life, debt free.

Now, if she wasn't working and had no place to stay, we'd still step up for her, because she has a history of being responsible. That's the difference. I don't see that as "enabling" but supporting an adult child who deserves a hand up. Each family has to decide for themselves what's best, and for us, we have the room and we have the love.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:46 AM
 
12,823 posts, read 24,322,554 times
Reputation: 11039
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
No one even in my extended family was ever "kicked out" except for one cousin who kept sneaking girls in after his parents went to bed. There weren't any rules requiring you to be on your own at 18, but it was a different economy then anyway, it was far easier to get out and live on your own. I graduated from High School in 1964, the kids I went to school with who didn't go to college got full time jobs and went out and rented their own apartment. Some of them shared with a friend but I knew plenty of kids who rented a place in their own name right after high school. But, that's because there were entry level jobs that paid enough to allow a person to pay rent and buy food, and landlords would rent to young people without a 700 FICO and a 10 year credit history. Try that now..send your 18 year old out and see who will rent to him.

Now, out of high school most jobs are 19 hours a week at minimum wage in fast food. In most parts of the country rent consumes so much of your pay check that even working 40 hours a week at minimum wage won't pay rent. How do you kick your own flesh and blood out in that kind of economy?
You are spot on. When I was eligible for a work permit as a teen, I was easily able to score fast food, retail and telesales jobs. Now? A 16 year old would be competing with people in their 20s and 30s for those jobs. No dice.

Meanwhile, the new college grads if not in possession of a "trade school" (e.g. tech, medical, etc) type of degree, will become one of said 20s / 30s folks vying for the jobs teens used to dominate.

And people wonder why Trump is PotUS?
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Old 04-04-2017, 02:47 PM
 
10,105 posts, read 19,335,586 times
Reputation: 17438
We are looking at buying a 4 bdr, 2 bath, even though our kids are "adults" and think they have it all figured. Moving back with us would not be ideal, but its an option I feel better having. Like another poster described it, its a safety net.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,144 posts, read 56,846,882 times
Reputation: 18425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
When the local people demean the young people who leave for a better future, I call that the "crab pot" mentality.

Watch what happens when one crab tries to pull himself out of the pot. The other crabs grab him to pull him back into the pot.

Leaving is the right thing to do.
I have heard this is only true of Canadian crabs, but point taken anyway.

It is easier to soar like an eagle when the turkeys you grew up with are far away.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,746,205 times
Reputation: 41862
Quote:
Originally Posted by crillon View Post
ITA with all you've said. At the end of a life, all you have is your family.

All our kids are well educated and working, but there have been times when each of them has needed to "bounce back" home for one good reason or another. We live in one of those large homes that makes it easier to accommodate them and we have no plan to downsize for many reasons, but one reason is that we want to preserve a safety net for our family.

Our daughter is about to move home temporarily. She has a great job in her field and is currently living in a townhome with her brother (paying her share of the rent), but because she has a sizable student loan for graduate work (completed her MS), she asked if she could move back home to pay off that loan and save for a downpayment on a condo. We said "yes" and we feel good about the arrangement and helping her bridge to the next phase of her life, debt free.

Now, if she wasn't working and had no place to stay, we'd still step up for her, because she has a history of being responsible. That's the difference. I don't see that as "enabling" but supporting an adult child who deserves a hand up. Each family has to decide for themselves what's best, and for us, we have the room and we have the love.

OMG, I could have typed that post myself, you and I think exactly the same. Kids are forever and nothing is more important than family. If my sons came to me today with a problem they were having, it would be my problem too, and vice versa.

Some people see this as enabling, but I feel sorry for them. They will never know the deep love and commitment we, who have tight knit families, share with each other. It does not end when they become adults, we have kids for life ! They could move back today and I would welcome them with open arms, and they would do the same for me.........and they have.
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:29 PM
 
3,350 posts, read 1,217,070 times
Reputation: 2283
All I can say: There but for the grace of God go I.
My young adult children and their spouses/babies are doing their best and making lives for themselves.
We bite our tongues a lot. We love them dearly and wish them the best but worry about their future.
We have a good, modest retirement but would probably do almost anything for them.
So...it is not my place to judge.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:08 PM
 
2,242 posts, read 2,993,116 times
Reputation: 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Agree - the "kick them out" and "parasite" line of thinking is problematic. I don't think the 18 year old granddaughter should be kicked out. Still, my cousins are not kids. If they need some help to bridge a crisis, that's one thing, but they ought to contribute to the extent they are able. That's my grandmother's concern that they won't and uncle will keep spending and spending on them to his own financial detriment, possibly having to delay retirement or my aunt may have to go back to work.

Uncle kicked out his daughter when she turned 18, then the next thing you know she got into partying and sleeping around, and the baby was born when she was 19 or 20. Kicking the granddaughter out is probably the quickest way to ensure she ends up in the same $12-$15/hr lifetime paycheck to paycheck carousel as the rest of the family. However, being in a family where no one is really doing well and kind of just muddling around some struggling financial/professional baseline, I doubt she'll do much better.

What I don't understand is that my cousin was in numerous metal bands and eventually got signed to a national record label. They put out a few albums. He was really talented, a lot more talented than most local bands. His wife (then girlfriend) have been together since high school and she is very religious. I don't know why he stopped playing music, maybe the girlfriend was too religious, whatever, but it's a shame all this was pretty much tabled and now he's doing temp work.



One thing I've noticed from watching probably a dozen great aunts and uncles in their final years, as well as numerous neighbors, family friends, co-congregants, etc., in this area, is that family ties run strong, perhaps too strong to the point that it causes the younger, caregiver family members to struggle.

I posted a thread recently about my grandmother's health and mobility issues. She spent last week with my aunt, who was on vacation for the week. However, grandmother expects my aunt to take her to the salon on Friday, to church on Sunday, and other less than critical tasks. Aunt obliges. What you end up with are seniors either needing or just plain demanding certain levels of services well beyond what the younger family member can often provide.

I don't want to say this is a uniquely local issue, as I'm sure people everywhere have the same problems, but it seems more acute in this area compared to the affluent suburban areas I've lived in. When I originally moved to Iowa five years ago, some of my coworkers in southwest VA coal country basically told me I was quitting on them, the area, and taking the "easy way out, like it was easy to pack everything from TN, haul it fifteen hours out to IA, by myself, and start anew knowing no one. In many situations, people would be proud of someone for doing better and "getting out," but here, the struggle is worn as a badge of honor and those who leave are seen as quitters.

I think you have a responsibility to aid your family to the point that it is reasonable, but an older relative can't sacrifice their own retirement and younger relatives can't sacrifice their careers, on the basis of helping some obstinate relative.
I think what you describe is pretty much typical for most towns in rural/semi-rural America. There's a general acceptance among the residents that this lifestyle and work environment is the norm. An $8-$10 per hour is acceptable, and $12-$15 is good. Anything above that is rare in these areas, and the jobs that do exist that pay well are very competitive, and usually go to those well connected in the community.

It is a common theme that a sizable portion of the population in these locales, won't leave come hell or high water. It's the center of the universe to them, and living anywhere else would be strange and intimidating. Many of these folks have never had a friend that they didn't go to grade school with.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 20,857,455 times
Reputation: 32530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
..................................

I moved back here after a job crisis in Indiana, and now I have a good job and my finances have straightened out. With that said, there are plenty of other places I'd rather live than here, and I doubt I'll be in this area at 35, at the very latest. The rest of the family thinks I am insane for wanting to get to a healthier, more normal location, and thinks things are perfectly fine here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
..................................

Uncle kicked out his daughter when she turned 18, then the next thing you know she got into partying and sleeping around, and the baby was born when she was 19 or 20. Kicking the granddaughter out is probably the quickest way to ensure she ends up in the same $12-$15/hr lifetime paycheck to paycheck carousel as the rest of the family. However, being in a family where no one is really doing well and kind of just muddling around some struggling financial/professional baseline, I doubt she'll do much better.

.......................................

One thing I've noticed from watching probably a dozen great aunts and uncles in their final years, as well as numerous neighbors, family friends, co-congregants, etc., in this area, is that family ties run strong, perhaps too strong to the point that it causes the younger, caregiver family members to struggle.

..................................

I don't want to say this is a uniquely local issue, as I'm sure people everywhere have the same problems, but it seems more acute in this area compared to the affluent suburban areas I've lived in. When I originally moved to Iowa five years ago, some of my coworkers in southwest VA coal country basically told me I was quitting on them, the area, and taking the "easy way out, like it was easy to pack everything from TN, haul it fifteen hours out to IA, by myself, and start anew knowing no one. In many situations, people would be proud of someone for doing better and "getting out," but here, the struggle is worn as a badge of honor and those who leave are seen as quitters.

I think you have a responsibility to aid your family to the point that it is reasonable, but an older relative can't sacrifice their own retirement and younger relatives can't sacrifice their careers, on the basis of helping some obstinate relative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
I think what you describe is pretty much typical for most towns in rural/semi-rural America. There's a general acceptance among the residents that this lifestyle and work environment is the norm. An $8-$10 per hour is acceptable, and $12-$15 is good. Anything above that is rare in these areas, and the jobs that do exist that pay well are very competitive, and usually go to those well connected in the community.

It is a common theme that a sizable portion of the population in these locales, won't leave come hell or high water. It's the center of the universe to them, and living anywhere else would be strange and intimidating. Many of these folks have never had a friend that they didn't go to grade school with.
You two posters have provided such a valuable window on an alternative universe, a different world view, which I find fascinating and frightening at the same time. It is frightening and tragic in its stubborn insularity, inertia, narrow-mindedness, and enforced mediocrity.

I am reminded of a scene in Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's "Terre des Hommes" ("Wind, Sand and Stars" is the title of the English translation). The writer is on a train and observes a poor family across from him. He comments that what bothers him most about these people is not their poverty per se and the suffering which derives from that poverty. What bothers him most is the thought that one of the children he observes might be a potential genius, a Mozart. But the Mozart would be unlikely to florish and thrive in that milieu. What bothers him most is "le Mozart assassiné" (Mozart assassinated). It has been many decades since I read that passage, but it has stuck with me through the many years as certain passages will sometimes do.

How much human potential has been "murdered" in stultifying environments in which not only is the potential not encouraged, but is actively opposed? It makes one shudder.
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 26,015,541 times
Reputation: 33870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
In the end you will realize that all you have is your family. Do what you can to help but don't become an enabler of bad habits.

If your kids get into a pickle and need to temporarily move in while they deal with issues like job loss, illness, or divorce, let them do that as long as they work the problem and become self sufficient.

I live in a neighborhood of fairly large homes. They are mostly two story with finished walk out basements. I've noticed that quite a few of my neighbors have had their children and grandchildren move back in temporarily. Life is tougher now for the younger generations. They cannot all get excellent full time jobs with benefits.

I'm lucky that my kids were all well educated and are doing well. But they know that if they needed somewhere to live temporarily, our house is always available.

Most of my neighbors are in our same age bracket with similar homes. I'd noticed that they have not moved and downsized. Perhaps one reason is to preserve that safety net for their kids.
well said, and you are right, in the end all you have is your family.
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 26,015,541 times
Reputation: 33870
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundapeanut View Post
My dad had the philosophy of sink or swim. Because of this, I became successful. When he told me I had to make it on my own, with no help. I knew he meant it. He didn't lie to me and didn't teach me to suck off others. He'd say, you are smart, I know you can make it! I never ended up homeless or filing bankruptcy. My brother was handicapped and he did help him out. He needed it, I didn't.

Yes I had to move to make things happen, go to college etc. People do it all the time.

Many businesses have been started by the need for a job. People do this all the time too, some become very successful.
Maybe some people need that as a motivation, but I don't think my brother or I did. We had wonderful supportive parents who never suggested that either of us move out, my brother lived at home until his junior year of college, I moved out and got married when I was 19 but there was never any pressure on either of us to leave and I don't think it caused us to be lazy or less ambitious than we would have otherwise.
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