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I have had severe osteoarthritis for 30 years. I live with chronic pain every day. Initially I was offered opioid pain medications and I took them but the problem was that every time I took one I loved everyone, I was just a happy freak, life was good, everything was wonderful, I loved everyone. I reflected on that and realized that the pills were doing more than killing my pain they were altering my mood. I flushed them all and I have not taken anything stronger than iburprofen since, even post surgically.
You just have to learn to live with chronic pain, once you do it's manageable. Narcotic pain meds are not the answer no doctor will prescribe them forever and when they cut you off you will either suffer withdrawals or end up buying them on the street, it's better not to start down that road. It's one thing to take them for a week if you break your leg or have surgery but anyone with a bad back or arthritis who thinks they can spend their life taking that crap is delusional
One shoe doesn't fit all.
I had a friend who also suffered from arthritis beginning in his 60's. His doctor was very good about giving him pain meds.
In his case, he took them after he mowed the yard or did some other activity that he KNEW was going to make him hurt afterwards and keep him up all night.
So, instead of sitting in front of the TV all day to avoid pain, he actually did things, enjoyed his life.....all because he knew he had those pills when he needed them.
This went on for about 12 years, there was never a problem and he never became addicted. He died of cancer in 2014.
Without those pills he would have just existed the last 12 years or his life, with them, he got to enjoy his life.
And I disagree with you. It's true a few seniors misuse these powerful medicines but I would say the vast majority who have been taking these for years for pain are "dependent" on them, not "addicted". Addiction implies they don't need them but use them recreationally. That's the root of this whole problem with seniors who are being cut off: it's the kids who use them recreationally to get high and who are dying from too high a high that is doing the harm to seniors with severe chronic pain who are "dependent" on them. If a person depends on these drugs for pain relief and are abruptly cut off they can go into seizures and die from heart failure/attack/stroke from the horrible stress placed on their heart and BP because of the withdrawals. Were a person to die because his/her Dr. suddenly cut them off I'd say that's manslaughter.
I understand what you are saying but let's get real about this, you can't take opioids for years because you develop a tolerance to them and after a time you need to take more and more or increase the dose and as that continues the more likely it becomes that your doctor will cut you off completely
I did not imply that anyone uses them recreationally for goodness sakes! You can take opioids without any recreational aspect at all but still develop an addiction (same as dependence btw) and I never said anyone should be suddenly cut off. I think they have their place in short term acute pain or with people who are terminally ill but that's about it.
I do not consider opioids an appropriate drug for long term chronic pain. There are other things you can do, biofeedback, even acupuncture, or better yet teach your brain not to react to the pain. I know for a fact that you can learn to ignore pain because I do it every day. I barely notice my pain unless I talk about it or do something to exacerbate it. You can learn to control your brain's reaction to pain, you do not need endless supplies of pain killers. A similar situation exists with tinnitus (ringing ears) my left ear rings constantly it never stops. There is nothing that can be done to fix it, but unless I think about it, I don't notice it, so I have trained myself not to notice it...the only time I really do is when it gets so bad that I can't hear out of that ear. If I heard it all the time I'm sure it would have driven me quite crazy by now.
I understand what you are saying but let's get real about this, you can't take opioids for years because you develop a tolerance to them and after a time you need to take more and more or increase the dose and as that continues the more likely it becomes that your doctor will cut you off completely
I did not imply that anyone uses them recreationally for goodness sakes! You can take opioids without any recreational aspect at all but still develop an addiction (same as dependence btw) and I never said anyone should be suddenly cut off. I think they have their place in short term acute pain or with people who are terminally ill but that's about it.
I do not consider opioids an appropriate drug for long term chronic pain. There are other things you can do, biofeedback, even acupuncture, or better yet teach your brain not to react to the pain. I know for a fact that you can learn to ignore pain because I do it every day. I barely notice my pain unless I talk about it or do something to exacerbate it. You can learn to control your brain's reaction to pain, you do not need endless supplies of pain killers. A similar situation exists with tinnitus (ringing ears) my left ear rings constantly it never stops. There is nothing that can be done to fix it, but unless I think about it, I don't notice it, so I have trained myself not to notice it...the only time I really do is when it gets so bad that I can't hear out of that ear. If I heard it all the time I'm sure it would have driven me quite crazy by now.
You seem like a real nice, reasonable, intelligent person sleepy. Hundreds of thousands of people need these meds long-term for control of their pain. Enough people here have said that. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Pain issues here, too. I actually don't like to take opioids because they make me feel depressed and then there's the constipation from hell...
I have no problem getting Baclofen prescribed. It's a muscle relaxer that doesn't have the above side-effects. Doctors don't bat an eye at prescribing it. I also take ibuprofen during the day.
And, alcohol really helps, and it's legal. I wait until dinner time to have a couple stiff cocktails or some wine. Only real downside is it's fattening lol.
But, you can't tell your doctor you use alcohol to help manage your pain, either! Then, they want to put you in rehab.
Many use pot which is legal in many places now. It also makes me feel depressed and out of touch with reality. And I hate the way it smells, so it's not an option for me. Plus, with pot, if you are working where you may get drug tested, you could lose your job. And, if you tell your doctor, they will also start looking for signs of addiction.
I also live a good part of my day on ice packs. My main pain is my neck, which will then cause my left hand to go numb. And, I just don't do as much as I used to do, so I don't end up in as much pain.
It really is insane. There's so much paranoia about addiction. Of course we get "addicted" to something that takes away our pain. And they give us no substitute. It's like a weird leftover from prohibition.
So, OP, I "feel you pain," so to speak. I need some more wine... :-)
weird...I guess it's good that we are able to recognize which drugs could cause us problems huh?
Yes, although by far the hardest and only true addiction I have is to nicotine. Nothing has ever compared to how hard that has been to quit. Even when I quit smoking, I chew nicotine gum or something. The irony, this is TRULY a drug no one needs and has no benefits, as is liquor, yet both are legal and easily available and the state is happily collecting taxes on them.
The ones with at least some proven benefits, like MJ and opioids are either illegal or headed in that direction.
It makes me mad that I have to be lumped in with people who abused their pain meds, when I never ran out early, in fact my prescriptions lasted longer than they were prescribed for because I cut them in half and took half at a time when the pain wasn't as disabling (I didn't like being sleepy, I wanted to be able to take advantage of decreased pain to try to recover my life a bit, sit up long enough to pay a few bills, try to wash my hair, things like that.)
To me it's like making liquor harder to get because some people abuse it. There are tons of alcoholics, and most of them die from it, it just takes longer than other drugs (and thus costs us many times more to care for them as they use a lot of health care later in life and often end up in nursing homes on Medicaid). Yet no one is calling for more restrictions on alcohol or saying all people who drink are potential alcoholics and should be treated as if they might be.
We go from one extreme to the other in this country. Either it's practically given away like candy or it's treated like poison and restricted. Why is it we can never find solutions somewhere other than the ends of the spectrum?
Yes, although by far the hardest and only true addiction I have is to nicotine. Nothing has ever compared to how hard that has been to quit. Even when I quit smoking, I chew nicotine gum or something. The irony, this is TRULY a drug no one needs and has no benefits, as is liquor, yet both are legal and easily available and the state is happily collecting taxes on them.
The ones with at least some proven benefits, like MJ and opioids are either illegal or headed in that direction.
It makes me mad that I have to be lumped in with people who abused their pain meds, when I never ran out early, in fact my prescriptions lasted longer than they were prescribed for because I cut them in half and took half at a time when the pain wasn't as disabling (I didn't like being sleepy, I wanted to be able to take advantage of decreased pain to try to recover my life a bit, sit up long enough to pay a few bills, try to wash my hair, things like that.)
To me it's like making liquor harder to get because some people abuse it. There are tons of alcoholics, and most of them die from it, it just takes longer than other drugs (and thus costs us many times more to care for them as they use a lot of health care later in life and often end up in nursing homes on Medicaid). Yet no one is calling for more restrictions on alcohol or saying all people who drink are potential alcoholics and should be treated as if they might be.
We go from one extreme to the other in this country. Either it's practically given away like candy or it's treated like poison and restricted. Why is it we can never find solutions somewhere other than the ends of the spectrum?
Don't forget all of the crimes committed by people under the influence of alcohol......domestic abuse is a big one.
Yet, the right to buy and consume unlimited amounts of alcohol is deemed sacred and untouchable.
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I have had severe osteoarthritis for 30 years. I live with chronic pain every day. Initially I was offered opioid pain medications and I took them but the problem was that every time I took one I loved everyone, I was just a happy freak, life was good, everything was wonderful, I loved everyone. I reflected on that and realized that the pills were doing more than killing my pain they were altering my mood. I flushed them all and I have not taken anything stronger than iburprofen since, even post surgically.
You just have to learn to live with chronic pain, once you do it's manageable. Narcotic pain meds are not the answer no doctor will prescribe them forever and when they cut you off you will either suffer withdrawals or end up buying them on the street, it's better not to start down that road. It's one thing to take them for a week if you break your leg or have surgery but anyone with a bad back or arthritis who thinks they can spend their life taking that crap is delusional
2sleepy for the most part is right. Under normal conditions these opioids are not good for you. Anyone who is taking them responsibly got them because a doctor determined, rightly or wrongly as practicalities go, that the person needed them for an extreme condition. Anyone being prescribed these meds by a responsible physician is between a rock and a hard place. It is reasonable to expect the person in pain to have exhausted all alternative therapies before starting on these. For most of us, long-term use of NSAIDS is just as deadly however. Here's a list of the side-effects of long-term use of them:
Quote:
Common side effects of NSAIDs include:
Stomach pain and heartburn.
Stomach ulcers.
A tendency to bleed more, especially when taking aspirin. ...
Headaches and dizziness.
Ringing in the ears.
Allergic reactions such as rashes, wheezing, and throat swelling.
Liver or kidney problems. ...
High blood pressure.
Now I'd like to ask 2sleepy: if acupuncture and chiropractics and meditation didn't work for him and the choice were between long-term use of NSAIDS with their accompanying side effects and opioids with their side effects which would he choose? It's not an easy choice. People die using both. The difference is opioids give euphoria whereas NSAIDS do not, that is why teens abuse them and not NSAIDS so that is why you can buy all the liver-killing NSAIDS you want over the counter but to get opioids which can be equally as dangerous if not used properly will be a thing of the past. A person in chronic pain from now on will have to rely on liquor and OTC analgesics for relief, which in the long term will kill him anyway.
Personally and morally, I don't know which is the better choice. On one, you get severe dependence and possible overdose and death but pain relief. On the other you get some relief but the side effects kill vital organs eventually and you die anyway. Personally, though I'd like to have the choice rather than being forced onto the one knowing that I will die a slow horrible death from stomach bleed, ulcers, liver failure and the rest. Anyone in severe chronic pain faces an uphill battle no matter what meds they resort to, be they NSAIDS and liquor or street heroin. An older person though, I think, is going to fare much worse on the NSAIDS because of the amount they will have to consume in order to get anywhere near the relief that a much smaller amount of opioid would bring.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 05-06-2017 at 11:32 PM..
Yes, although by far the hardest and only true addiction I have is to nicotine. Nothing has ever compared to how hard that has been to quit. Even when I quit smoking, I chew nicotine gum or something. The irony, this is TRULY a drug no one needs and has no benefits, as is liquor, yet both are legal and easily available and the state is happily collecting taxes on them.
The ones with at least some proven benefits, like MJ and opioids are either illegal or headed in that direction.
It makes me mad that I have to be lumped in with people who abused their pain meds, when I never ran out early, in fact my prescriptions lasted longer than they were prescribed for because I cut them in half and took half at a time when the pain wasn't as disabling (I didn't like being sleepy, I wanted to be able to take advantage of decreased pain to try to recover my life a bit, sit up long enough to pay a few bills, try to wash my hair, things like that.)
To me it's like making liquor harder to get because some people abuse it. There are tons of alcoholics, and most of them die from it, it just takes longer than other drugs (and thus costs us many times more to care for them as they use a lot of health care later in life and often end up in nursing homes on Medicaid). Yet no one is calling for more restrictions on alcohol or saying all people who drink are potential alcoholics and should be treated as if they might be.
We go from one extreme to the other in this country. Either it's practically given away like candy or it's treated like poison and restricted. Why is it we can never find solutions somewhere other than the ends of the spectrum?
yep, what you said and nicotine is the devil, my brother was never a heavy smoker but I guess you don't have to be to deal with the addictive aspects of it. He quit smoking and told me that 10 years later he would dream about smoking and that sometimes he felt like he'd lost his best friend.
2sleepy for the most part is right. Under normal conditions these opioids are not good for you. Anyone who is taking them responsibly got them because a doctor determined, rightly or wrongly as practicalities go, that the person needed them for an extreme condition. Anyone being prescribed these meds by a responsible physician is between a rock and a hard place. It is reasonable to expect the person in pain to have exhausted all alternative therapies before starting on these. For most of us, long-term use of NSAIDS is just as deadly however. Here's a list of the side-effects of long-term use of them:
Now I'd like to ask 2sleepy: if acupuncture and chiropractics and meditation didn't work for him and the choice were between long-term use of NSAIDS with their accompanying side effects and opioids with their side effects which would he choose? It's not an easy choice. People die using both. The difference is opioids give euphoria whereas NSAIDS do not, that is why teens abuse them and not NSAIDS so that is why you can buy all the liver-killing NSAIDS you want over the counter but to get opioids which can be equally as dangerous if not used properly will be a thing of the past. A person in chronic pain from now on will have to rely on liquor and OTC analgesics for relief, which in the long term will kill him anyway.
Personally and morally, I don't know which is the better choice. On one, you get severe dependence and possible overdose and death but pain relief. On the other you get some relief but the side effects kill vital organs eventually and you die anyway. Personally, though I'd like to have the choice rather than being forced onto the one knowing that I will die a slow horrible death from stomach bleed, ulcers, liver failure and the rest. Anyone in severe chronic pain faces an uphill battle no matter what meds they resort to, be they NSAIDS and liquor or street heroin. An older person though, I think, is going to fare much worse on the NSAIDS because of the amount they will have to consume in order to get anywhere near the relief that a much smaller amount of opioid would bring.
I don't have any good answers, but I think that no matter how strongly you advocate for the therapeutic use of opioids for chronic pain the writing is on the wall, I think within a few years that just won't be an option unless you buy them on the street. I have a friend who has severe chronic pain and smokes weed, she said it's better than anything else she ever tried, so maybe that's an option? Biofeedback worked wonders for me, it's just a tool that is used to help you train your brain to tune out pain, but probably like everything else the success of that varies from one person to another.
And I don't think the use of NSAIDS is a death sentence, perhaps if you were going to take 800 mg of Ibuprofen every four hours for the next 10 years, or if you have existing liver damage..but for the most part I think it's pretty well established that you can take reasonable doses of them for a very long time without any fatal complications.
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and nicotine is the devil, my brother was never a heavy smoker but I guess you don't have to be to deal with the addictive aspects of it. He quit smoking and told me that 10 years later he would dream about smoking and that sometimes he felt like he'd lost his best friend.
