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Old 11-26-2018, 07:09 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,479,584 times
Reputation: 15498

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
Yup...

https://money.usnews.com/investing/a...ayers-billions

This is a different case, since in many cases the companies are bankrupt and gone. We would be funding individual retirements, not making investments.
They are American citizens... What other arguments for investment do you need? They contributed to the country, now they get help when they need it

Op is bitter because he didn't get his pie so he wants others to be bitter as well
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Old 11-26-2018, 07:50 PM
 
5,687 posts, read 7,125,903 times
Reputation: 4326
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
They are American citizens... What other arguments for investment do you need? They contributed to the country, now they get help when they need it

Op is bitter because he didn't get his pie so he wants others to be bitter as well
You are dead wrong. I'll have you know I had a lovely piece of Reese's Creme Pie for dessert this evening and it was delightful. Now I'll have to go to the gym at the clubhouse and, OH, WAIT, there's no gym here! Well, that stinks. Maybe they'll let me use the gym at the retirement community up the street. No? Only for residents? B-b-but, I'm an American citizen, if I (and others) contribute to their retirement, they should let me use their gym when I need it, right?
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:09 PM
 
3,476 posts, read 3,166,833 times
Reputation: 6488
This is a distracter.


What I'm worried about is the idea (that has been periodically floating around for years now) that considers private retirement funds (IRA's) are "wealth". There are more than a few politicians advocating a separate tax rate on IRA distributions. They've proposed 60 - 70% for withdrawals from IRA accounts with net worth over 100K! Been kept very hush hush.


I kid you not. Be real careful and pay attention. It's the kind of thing that could get pushed through, just like that. I first heard about this 15 years ago, and mumbled about several times since in a deep dark corner of something like the WSJ, but never mentioned by the MSM.

Last edited by TwinbrookNine; 11-26-2018 at 08:24 PM..
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:12 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,479,584 times
Reputation: 15498
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarc View Post
You are dead wrong. I'll have you know I had a lovely piece of Reese's Creme Pie for dessert this evening and it was delightful. Now I'll have to go to the gym at the clubhouse and, OH, WAIT, there's no gym here! Well, that stinks. Maybe they'll let me use the gym at the retirement community up the street. No? Only for residents? B-b-but, I'm an American citizen, if I (and others) contribute to their retirement, they should let me use their gym when I need it, right?
bet they would if you slipped them a $20 or helped clean the pool... but you didnt want to contribute to them...

why wouldnt they go after IRA/401k? they go after pensions already, and that is a retirement plan like ira/401k...
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:42 PM
 
5,687 posts, read 7,125,903 times
Reputation: 4326
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
bet they would if you slipped them a $20 or helped clean the pool... but you didnt want to contribute to them...

why wouldnt they go after IRA/401k? they go after pensions already, and that is a retirement plan like ira/401k...
Oh, lighten up, MLS, most of the retirees I know are decent people. And I will say that I've had a fairly decent life here in the US because of them. After all, I didn't pay for all that infrastructure and nice parks and beaches on my own. It takes a country! I don't begrudge them a decent retirement at all. I think they should GET their pensions, from the likes of Mitt Romney, the banksters, Wall Street, etc. But not from working stiffs who are just trying to make it.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:43 PM
 
5,687 posts, read 7,125,903 times
Reputation: 4326
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine View Post
This is a distracter.


What I'm worried about is the idea (that has been periodically floating around for years now) that considers private retirement funds (IRA's) are "wealth". There are more than a few politicians advocating a separate tax rate on IRA distributions. They've proposed 60 - 70% for withdrawals from IRA accounts with net worth over 100K! Been kept very hush hush.


I kid you not. Be real careful and pay attention. It's the kind of thing that could get pushed through, just like that. I first heard about this 15 years ago, and mumbled about several times since in a deep dark corner of something like the WSJ, but never mentioned by the MSM.
Thanks for the tip, Twinbrook.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:46 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
4,023 posts, read 3,781,756 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine View Post
This is a distracter.


What I'm worried about is the idea (that has been periodically floating around for years now) that considers private retirement funds (IRA's) are "wealth". There are more than a few politicians advocating a separate tax rate on IRA distributions. They've proposed 60 - 70% for withdrawals from IRA accounts with net worth over 100K! Been kept very hush hush.


I kid you not. Be real careful and pay attention. It's the kind of thing that could get pushed through, just like that. I first heard about this 15 years ago, and mumbled about several times since in a deep dark corner of something like the WSJ, but never mentioned by the MSM.
"more than a few politicians" - could you name some of them so this doesn't sound like a baseless conspiracy theory?
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:11 AM
 
Location: S-E Michigan
4,266 posts, read 5,896,857 times
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In the Human Resources world, as evidenced by employee benefit pamphlets, an employee's Total Compensation is the sum of wages and all employee benefits. In other words, employees are enticed to accept a job with slightly lower wages which is accompanied with health insurance, life insurance, pension plan, paid vacation, stock purchase plan option, etc. In addition, the employee does not have to self manage, self fund, and acquire all these extras on their own.

Fast forward 30 years and the pension plan is broke.

Is it the employee's fault? They were promised a pension in exchange for lower wages. The money for a self funded pension was there but kept by the employer, and the employer or pension plan trustees screwed up and squandered it.

(My former employer would include the mandatory employer's contribution to FICA as an "employee benefit" when compiling the Total Compensation values. Maybe this level of deceit is why they went bankrupt a decade ago and are headed that way again!)
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Floyd Co, VA
3,513 posts, read 6,351,075 times
Reputation: 7626
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
In the Human Resources world, as evidenced by employee benefit pamphlets, an employee's Total Compensation is the sum of wages and all employee benefits. In other words, employees are enticed to accept a job with slightly lower wages which is accompanied with health insurance, life insurance, pension plan, paid vacation, stock purchase plan option, etc. In addition, the employee does not have to self manage, self fund, and acquire all these extras on their own.

Fast forward 30 years and the pension plan is broke.

Is it the employee's fault? They were promised a pension in exchange for lower wages. The money for a self funded pension was there but kept by the employer, and the employer or pension plan trustees screwed up and squandered it.
In the fall of 2005, just months before I retired (after 28 years on the job) I attended the annual meeting to hear about the pension and at that time they estimated that it was fully funded through 2049. After retiring I made a number of decisions based on that planned income for life, including moving cross country and buying a place in the country.

It wasn't the employers or even the plan administrators who "screwed it up". It was the Wall St. bankstas who came up with crazy investment schemes that had no oversight by anyone and so the great crash of 2008 wiped out years and years of pension funds as well as various savings for retirement by so many individuals. What penalties and losses did those who engineered the crisis have to pay? None, as far as I know. Some got retention bonuses.

Since Dec 2014 when Congress changed the rules regarding pensions in the red I have been working hard to save as much as possible since my pension is one of those in critical status. A plan was submitted to the Treasury Dept which would have cut my pension by 60%. It was rejected in May 2017 and the trustees still have not decided whether or not they will try to revise all the calculations and resubmit a revised plan. They have already said that if they do revise the numbers the cuts will be even deeper.

I appreciate that a few in Congress are trying to figure out some solution or help for the million plus retirees who face such cuts but do not expect that they will actually be able to come up with anything that would even reach the floor of the House or Senate for a vote.

All I can do is continue to live frugally, keep saving and hope that the 23 year old vehicle with 210,000+ miles continues to hang in there, that the house won't need any more critical repairs (I've replaced the leaking roof, the water heater, pressure tank, and stove in the past year). The whole house could really use interior painting but I'll continue to put that off since it's a want not a vital need. I will soon made the repairs to the interior caused by the leaking roof and then try to find a housemate to rent the upstairs but that would not bring in enough to offset a big cut to my income.

I don't have a solution. Maybe those financial geniuses from Wall St. should be tasked with coming up with plan. LOL
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:15 AM
 
5,687 posts, read 7,125,903 times
Reputation: 4326
Quote:
Originally Posted by zugor View Post
In the fall of 2005, just months before I retired (after 28 years on the job) I attended the annual meeting to hear about the pension and at that time they estimated that it was fully funded through 2049. After retiring I made a number of decisions based on that planned income for life, including moving cross country and buying a place in the country.

It wasn't the employers or even the plan administrators who "screwed it up". It was the Wall St. bankstas who came up with crazy investment schemes that had no oversight by anyone and so the great crash of 2008 wiped out years and years of pension funds as well as various savings for retirement by so many individuals. What penalties and losses did those who engineered the crisis have to pay? None, as far as I know. Some got retention bonuses.

Since Dec 2014 when Congress changed the rules regarding pensions in the red I have been working hard to save as much as possible since my pension is one of those in critical status. A plan was submitted to the Treasury Dept which would have cut my pension by 60%. It was rejected in May 2017 and the trustees still have not decided whether or not they will try to revise all the calculations and resubmit a revised plan. They have already said that if they do revise the numbers the cuts will be even deeper.

I appreciate that a few in Congress are trying to figure out some solution or help for the million plus retirees who face such cuts but do not expect that they will actually be able to come up with anything that would even reach the floor of the House or Senate for a vote.

All I can do is continue to live frugally, keep saving and hope that the 23 year old vehicle with 210,000+ miles continues to hang in there, that the house won't need any more critical repairs (I've replaced the leaking roof, the water heater, pressure tank, and stove in the past year). The whole house could really use interior painting but I'll continue to put that off since it's a want not a vital need. I will soon made the repairs to the interior caused by the leaking roof and then try to find a housemate to rent the upstairs but that would not bring in enough to offset a big cut to my income.

I don't have a solution. Maybe those financial geniuses from Wall St. should be tasked with coming up with plan. LOL
Thanks for your story, Zugor. You have just put a human face on the issue. And you are exactly right, it was/is the Wall Street bankstas who are at fault. I don't even know how an employer or administrator could wisely invest in the screwy economy those psychopaths have created.
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