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^Ha, no, I don't think anyone is suggesting that. We're just saying that some people already do live that way. I'm currently staying somewhere rural--but with a whole-house generator and freezer full of food I bought from a grocery store.
I think we just have to accept that there are always going to be people among us who lived their lives in such a way that they never figured out how to support themselves. Sneering at them and standing with hands on hips and wagging fingers remonstrating them for not planning better doesn't do any good at this point.
My take on that is not a popular one--I believe everyone should eat, whether they screwed up their lives or not, whether they are crazy, or criminal, or just too plain stupid to take care of themselves without assistance. It's not that I'm standing up for socialism or not letting people learn to help themselves or disobeying some wackadoo twist on the Bible that justifies withholding food from people. I just think that we are crap as a society if we have enough food to go around and we choose to not let some people have any.
I think that so far we do a pretty good job of feeding people as individuals, because there are enough of us who do feel that way, but as far as housing goes, that will take more of a buy-in by society overall. Again, not the popular view, I know.
After I retired, we decided to return stateside. My pension is not a lot, which restricts where we can afford to live. We had to find somewhere with a low COL.
At that time, we still had two children at home.
We found an area that we like, and we have been here 15 years. We bought 45 acres of forest land with a quarter-mile of river frontage for $35,000, my in-laws bought an adjoining parcel of 105 acres for $35,000 [no river frontage]. I built our house myself [fortunately I still had enough energy at that time]. Our home is on solar power. I am a beekeeper, I tap a few maples, we have chickens and breed pigs, and we have a large garden.
My Dw and I both drive hybrid sedans that we recharge using our household solar-power system.
My pension income along with farm income is not a high enough income to pay income taxes. So that helps.
We produce most [roughly 90%] of our own food. Our community has less than 10 people per square-mile, so I consider it to be fairly 'rural'.
Most of our neighbors are elderly and living on Social Security, $700 - $800 a month [like me they own their homes and they have a very low Cost-of-living].
We know many young families who do huge gardens [4 to 5 acres of land] and they sell produce at roadside Farmer's Markets. In this area an adult can support their family entirely from selling veggies from their garden.
We consume about half of my pension income, after years of saving the extra we built up enough cash in 2016 that we bought a downtown commercial building. That we have rehabilitated, and we now have a bunch of tenants.
In case you were wondering how someone who earns less than Minimum-Wage could afford to be a landlord with apartments.
In my worldview, you do not need $1,000 a month income to be able to support a family.
My health care is covered by my former employer [US Navy], my pension obligates me to suit-up again should our Congress deem such is necessary.
So people are suggesting everybody move to a rural area where rents are cheaper but its 50 mile drive to town and no support services? .
DW is a city girl. She "tolerates" suburbia but no way she'd live in a rural area. So unless I want to live alone I'd better to figure out the finances so we can afford to live in a suburb near major metropolitan area.
Gardening is more of a hobby and no way we can depend on what I grow to eat. Our definition of "hunting/ gathering" for food is go on Yelp and look at the reviews to see which restaurant to try next, or to order take-out. Unfortunately we also like to eat and unfortunately DW is not a good cook, so the idea of 100 lbm of raw flour and try to bake bread everyday is not in the card. It's probably more realistic to find the nearest Cheesecake Factory and buy the cake instead. Last time I kill a live-chicken was when I was 8 years old and when I said "I", I meant "I" watched grandma do it. So the idea of backyard livestock for protein is also out of question.
Sad to realize if the society breaks down and SHTF, we have nowhere to go but will stay at home and starve. Our survival depends on Costco and nearby supermakets and restaurants.
^Ha, no, I don't think anyone is suggesting that. We're just saying that some people already do live that way. I'm currently staying somewhere rural--but with a whole-house generator and freezer full of food I bought from a grocery store.
I think we just have to accept that there are always going to be people among us who lived their lives in such a way that they never figured out how to support themselves. Sneering at them and standing with hands on hips and wagging fingers remonstrating them for not planning better doesn't do any good at this point.
My take on that is not a popular one--I believe everyone should eat, whether they screwed up their lives or not, whether they are crazy, or criminal, or just too plain stupid to take care of themselves without assistance. It's not that I'm standing up for socialism or not letting people learn to help themselves or disobeying some wackadoo twist on the Bible that justifies withholding food from people. I just think that we are crap as a society if we have enough food to go around and we choose to not let some people have any.
I think that so far we do a pretty good job of feeding people as individuals, because there are enough of us who do feel that way, but as far as housing goes, that will take more of a buy-in by society overall. Again, not the popular view, I know.
Okay, bleeding liberal here. What I would like to bring up is how raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour will be adantageous to "the other side."
$15 an hour will get a large chunk of the"lazy scumbags", working 60 hours a week, who only make the current minimum wage, no longer eligible for EBT because they will no longer need it just to survive. This will save taxpayers money.
Homelesness has grown exponentially over the past couple of decades. Many of these homeless people work, but they can not afford to rent anywhere on the current minimum wage. Many who were working just gave up, some gettting into the drugs, crime and abuse of alcohol because living on the streets will affect a person after a while. I can see raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour getting many of them away from the drugs and alcohol culture and off the streets.
Social Security. More people paying into it will help keep it solvent. Hopefully in addition the income limit for paying into social security will be hugely raised, maybe even eliminated.
With a $15 minimum wage, many parents who are working 2 full-time jobs to take care of their kids will be able to actually spend more time with their kids, lessening the crime rate.
With a $15 minimum wage, more of these people will be able to buy more "stuff" thus contributing more to the economy.
How can employers work their employees to the bone, and not pay them enough to survive on? Well, I see this as a moral deficit that seems to be accepted by too many in our society. A $15 minimum wage may very well raise the moral level of our society [and boy howdy, our society needs more compassion and morals]
Trickle-down economics has never worked and it never will.As I said before, if a business cannot afford to pay their employees a decent wage, they should not be in business. And that's okay. With a minimum wage of $15 an hour, there will be plenty of people who have been surviving on almost nothing, and because of that have the skills to save any extra money to build their own business down the road. And those employers who cannot pay $15 an hour, maybe these new entrepeneurs will hire you,starting at $15 an hour [or more!]
Okay, bleeding liberal here. What I would like to bring up is how raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour will be adantageous to "the other side."
$15 an hour will get a large chunk of the"lazy scumbags", working 60 hours a week, who only make the current minimum wage, no longer eligible for EBT because they will no longer need it just to survive. This will save taxpayers money.
Homelesness has grown exponentially over the past couple of decades. Many of these homeless people work, but they can not afford to rent anywhere on the current minimum wage. Many who were working just gave up, some gettting into the drugs, crime and abuse of alcohol because living on the streets will affect a person after a while. I can see raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour getting many of them away from the drugs and alcohol culture and off the streets.
Social Security. More people paying into it will help keep it solvent. Hopefully in addition the income limit for paying into social security will be hugely raised, maybe even eliminated.
With a $15 minimum wage, many parents who are working 2 full-time jobs to take care of their kids will be able to actually spend more time with their kids, lessening the crime rate.
With a $15 minimum wage, more of these people will be able to buy more "stuff" thus contributing more to the economy.
How can employers work their employees to the bone, and not pay them enough to survive on? Well, I see this as a moral deficit that seems to be accepted by too many in our society. A $15 minimum wage may very well raise the moral level of our society [and boy howdy, our society needs more compassion and morals]
Trickle-down economics has never worked and it never will.As I said before, if a business cannot afford to pay their employees a decent wage, they should not be in business. And that's okay. With a minimum wage of $15 an hour, there will be plenty of people who have been surviving on almost nothing, and because of that have the skills to save any extra money to build their own business down the road. And those employers who cannot pay $15 an hour, maybe these new entrepeneurs will hire you,starting at $15 an hour [or more!]
Of course the flip side is with all employers having to pay higher wages more people will have their jobs gone and replaced with automation as well as everything costing more .
Many low end jobs here are now done by self check out and kiosks as wages went up .
The higher the wage the more worth it automatio becomes or just eliminating marginal staff you can do without .
When we were sick with covid we used door dash a lot .
I got the bug to have a McDonald’s big breakfast with the pancakes .
So I put an order together for door dash for my wife and I ...the order came to 33.00 dollars ...I checked prices directly on McDonald’s site and they were the same .
I said that is nuts for McDonald’s and cancelled the order , but that is a perfect example of what we got from those higher wages being paid ...plus go in the store now and there are now only a few workers and you order by kiosk .
Artificially trying to manipulate the job markets never works out well , especially for those on the lower end.
It effects them the most as lower priced goods and services have to raise prices to compensate or eliminate more of their jobs .
We may have 3 registers now open at the super market manned by cashiers ...most were replaced by self check out . It no longer paid to have them at these higher wages .
Been to the airport ? I feel like I work for them as I process my own suit cases and tickets..
We went for covid antibody testing ...the employees were replaced by self entry kiosks ...they had one person just checking identification....all employees were replaced by kiosk entry .
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-23-2021 at 03:53 AM..
Of course the flip side is with all employers having to pay higher wages more people will have their jobs gone and replaced with automation as well as everything costing more .
Many low end jobs here are now done by self check out and kiosks as wages went up .
The higher the wage the more worth it automatio becomes or just eliminating marginal staff you can do without .
When we were sick with covid we used door dash a lot .
I got the bug to have a McDonald’s big breakfast with the pancakes .
So I put an order together for door dash for my wife and I ...the order came to 33.00 dollars ...I checked prices directly on McDonald’s site and they were the same .
I said that is nuts for McDonald’s and cancelled the order , but that is a perfect example of what we got from those higher wages being paid ...plus go in the store now and there are now only a few workers and you order by kiosk .
Artificially trying to manipulate the job markets never works out well , especially for those on the lower end.
It effects them the most as lower priced goods and services have to raise prices to compensate or eliminate more of their jobs .
We may have 3 registers now open at the super market manned by cashiers ...most were replaced by self check out . It no longer paid to have them at these higher wages .
Been to the airport ? I feel like I work for them as I process my own suit cases and tickets..
We went for covid antibody testing ...the employees were replaced by self entry kiosks ...they had one person just checking identification....all employees were replaced by kiosk entry .
Good points but more automation is always the goal of business. Maybe raising minimum wage expedites it a bit but it is always in the works. Any job that can possibly be automated will be whether it pays $15 or $2 an hour.
Good points but more automation is always the goal of business. Maybe raising minimum wage expedites it a bit but it is always in the works. Any job that can possibly be automated will be whether it pays $15 or $2 an hour.
It has to be worth doing ...it is costly to automate ..I sold the equipment for factory automation ..
Many businesses won’t commit to that expense until worth doing ...
The problem with just pushing up minimum end wages is it can’t stop there .
Your more experienced needed workers may be at 15 an hour or not much past it ,after years of working hard there and gaining greater skills ,so now they just got bumped to starting level again if the new hire doing a lower end job is getting 15 dollars too and just got there .
So generally you need to raise the bulk of the workers higher , not just those at the bottom ..the entire non executive work force typically slides upward because of seniority and skill level.
That makes layoffs and automation bigger factors as labor costs sky rocket.
Most things in the business world end up having unintended consequences when manipulated
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-23-2021 at 05:27 AM..
Just do a Google search for "average net worth of Americans at age 65".
The difference between Average (mean) and Median is staggering!
In the data I was directed to the Mean was approx $1.2M, and the Median was approx 10% of that.
Net Worth includes houses, cars, cash value of Life Insurance, etc. A lot of non-liquid 'assets'.
1.2 million seems high
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