Why Older Women Face Greater Financial Hardship Than Older Men (relative, cousins)
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Huitrecouture, your post said, "Women started doing "those dangerous jobs" with 1970s affirmative action" and "Women at the "not dangerous jobs" in the phone company, for example, didn't require any degrees and were making $88,000 way back in the late 1980s and weren't even a rarity / executive." So you are saying women have had the same opportunities as men to make a good salary since the 70's.
If this is correct, then why are women facing financial hardship in retirement, then? You haven't commented on that.
Yes, women do have children and someone has to take care of them, and probably work at the same time, but that has nothing to do with this thread.
Secondly, you are all about tearing me down in a personal way which is very rude. I'm surprised the moderator didn't call you out on your personal attacks. I was just trying to say that very few women are willing to do that kind of job.
I don't know who that was...but my mother, at her retirement in the mid 90's, was making 67k. I think that was pretty good. She didn't even have a college degree. Some college though, and she actually went back to school for some classes, when we were little. Fact is, once she started working full time, she always out-earned my father. I guess she made an impression on me as I have always earned more than every man I have ever had a relationship with.
I couldn't read the article, but as someone else pointed out, you can't compare today's younger women to the women who are retired now. I think my generation was the first one that really stood a chance at really having equal access to jobs and income. We didn't have jobs restricted by gender and salary's set on gender like most of the women retired today. Holding women of the past up to today's standards is a logical fallacy.
That said, it's not about how much you earn. It's about how much you save. I earn a lot less than my boyfriend does... he earns three times what I do. But I have more saved that he does and I am 10 years younger.
I think the best thing anyone ever did for me was when my dad and my uncle showed me the power of compounding interest and how, if you take the money out of your income/pay yourself first, you don't miss it. I don't care if you have a young adult in your life who is a man or woman, sit down and show them how compounding interest works and teach them to pay themselves first. Even with a small amount of money, if you start early enough, it just builds up over time. My uncle, in particular, showed me by how just saving $2K a year, I could be a millionaire in retirement. That left a huge impression on me and I started saving that $2K a year (the max then) in my IRA as soon as I got out of college and got my first real job. My dad taught me about investing and mutual funds and dollar cost averaging. I am happy to say I will reach that million dollar goal early... even if I stop saving completely, today.
And, as others said, women live longer. My goal in having a million is so I can live off 4% interest ($40K a year) so the money will last in perpetuity. $40K is much more than I spend in a year if you take out housing (my housing costs in retirement will be very low, just taxes, insurance, and maintenance since I won't have a mortgage). And I will also get social security (which I am not counting on, although I think will still be there in some form). If social security is the same when I am 62 as it is now and if I take it at 62, I will literally be bringing in more take home pay in retirement than I do now (since I won't be saving for retirement anymore). And that's assuming I only have a million to work with. If I keep saving, I will exceed that million.
Anyway, my point is, things for women who are retired today were different than they are for the women who will be retiring in the future. And no matter what the generation, since women live longer on average, they need to save more and save more aggressively then men to be on the same footing.
Last edited by WalkingLiberty1919D; 01-08-2022 at 11:59 AM..
Reason: Typos from autocorrect! I really hate autocorrect sometimes.
I've been in the workforce for 50 years. I've been in several different sectors of jobs and feel I can comment on why women--primarily single women--struggle financially in retirement. For a single woman, financial security hinges on one's job choices, ability to earn a living wage, save and invest, and spend prudently. There isn't a second income to pay for household expenses plus save and invest, therefore, a single woman must prioritize getting a good paying job in her early working years. Yes, the opportunities ARE out there, but many women are NOT availing themselves of many good opportunities and seem to prefer schlumping along at lower paying jobs.
Whatever I state on here is what I know FROM MY OWN experience. So don't tell me that I'm clueless or don't know what I'm talking about.
I do not understand your obvious dislike for women. Your problem. Not mine.
In my line of work people willingly disclose actual income numbers. It is interesting to see hairdressers, cleaning ladies, truckers, ... in the infamous six figures. I know what I make, what my mother and my mother in law made No education or not recognized in the US.
Why does being woman mean there is no secondary income in the household? Considering that you have been in he workforce 50 years gives an indication of your mindset. There were times I was the main breadwinner. Not now.
I am so glad that in your opinion there are no men who did not grasp your idea of income, opportunity, an antiquated view of relationships and intelligence. You are correct! Women are a lesser life form, cannot think for themselves, work low wage jobs and need a man.
Another thing I might add is that women aren't willing to do those higher paying jobs that are difficult, demanding, and dirty. I worked a very difficult, dirty and dangerous job in a male dominated environment for many years and made a much higher salary than my female peers because I was willing to do this type of work. I worked shift work and I put in long hours. I worked night shift and weekends and holidays. I have financial security now as I approach retirement. How many women are willing to do this? Not many. They'd rather work in a nice office where they can't chip their nail polish.
Not everyone can be a lawyer, accountant or doctor. Women who don't go to college invariably choose jobs like grocery stores, waitressing or retail. My goodness. Don't they have any ambitions outside of getting married? There are a lot of better paying jobs out there.
Your post is quite illuminating..... about you. UGH!
That was at AT&T where you probably know if you're from Jersey? We had several offices and I worked in all of them.
I was in headquarters in Basking Ridge as the Product Manager and at one time was even the EA to the President Joe Nacchio to handle all the complaints there were so many after divestiture. Before he was sentenced to 6 years federal prison. I also directly worked for Gail McGovern, who is now the head of the Red Cross along the way.
Do you know what the word divestiture means? Where were you in the 1980's?
My P&L was $5 BILLION. That's Billion with a B.
Do you know what a P&L is?
Check yourself before you go accusing others because of your own ignorance about certain topics.
You're a CNA right?
What would you know about the corporate world in the 1980's??? Or my life.
Ever have your work reviewed by the Wall Street Journal and NYT? Ever have to respond for their publication and get quoted?
What a joke.
And as you can see from the following post after mine - it was not unheard of. At all.
(Ever hear of BONUSES???? I easily got a minimum $10,000 bonus every year. One year it was $18K and it paid for a new car - you don't believe that either? Mitsubishi Galant 1987 - google it.)
Huitrecouture, your post said, "Women started doing "those dangerous jobs" with 1970s affirmative action" and "Women at the "not dangerous jobs" in the phone company, for example, didn't require any degrees and were making $88,000 way back in the late 1980s and weren't even a rarity / executive." So you are saying women have had the same opportunities as men to make a good salary since the 70's.
If this is correct, then why are women facing financial hardship in retirement, then? You haven't commented on that.
Yes, women do have children and someone has to take care of them, and probably work at the same time, but that has nothing to do with this thread.
Secondly, you are all about tearing me down in a personal way which is very rude. I'm surprised the moderator didn't call you out on your personal attacks. I was just trying to say that very few women are willing to do that kind of job.
SOME women are facing financial difficulties in retirement. Fixed it for you.
The same reason as SOME men are facing the same difficulties. Why? because SOMEONE (they and/or their spouse) failed to plan for their eventual retirement. Or because some tragedy occurred, like a bad medical situation, or a late in life divorce blew up their plan, or the housing crash, or the stock market crash happened and they failed to recover from that successfully.
These things happen to BOTH (or should I say all?) genders. Many/most women are doing just fine in their retirements. The child care gap, and the dilemma of the SAHM, are both issues that can, and should be dealt with by SAHPs, married or single, and the spouses of the married ones. Life insurance for instance. If one parent chooses to stay at home, and thus will have inadequate SS, then a LI policy on the working spouse should be purchased which can replace the SS and savings from the SAHP's non-existent income. Investments can be made, annuities can be purchased. All these things can be handled with proper retirement planning. I recognize that there is still a significant cohort of single parents with inadequate income to save or invest, but the children are up and out long before retirement, and that is the time for them to get on the ball and save/invest while they can. They may have to retire later, but it can be done.
Your reality is obviously different from mine but that doesn't justify the personal attacks here. I'm proud of my experience and feel I accomplished something that few women do. I stand by what I said.
You, on the other hand, have not stayed on topic. Putting me aside, you can't seem to explain why older women struggle financially in retirement. You're saying you know women who made $88,000 in office jobs and someone else who worked as a CFO in ship repair--okay, yes, there are some women who DO have good jobs. I'm not suggesting that no women out there make good money, yes, they do. I was speaking in a broader way that women in general don't pick certain (higher paying) careers--which I think is a fact which no one can argue with.
So please tell us then...why are women struggling financially then? If you're saying there are all these good opportunities out there, then what's the problem?
While you base your opinions on your experience, I base mine upon my experience. Almost every women I know has had her own income, and most have been sole providers for themselves, and their children if they had any, for much/some of their adult lives. Almost every woman I know has a nest egg, or a pension, and nearly the same SS as I (and most of my male friends/relatives) have. The SS payouts for lower income people are actually a higher percentage of their working wage than those of higher paid individuals. I don't personally know any working women of the BB generation who are struggling more in retirement than an equivalent number of male counterparts. Now my mother's generation (she would be 86 now) there were many, but those now in their 60s and early 70s are a different story.
That was at AT&T where you probably know if you're from Jersey? We had several offices and I worked in all of them.
My mother was an AT&T programmer in Basking Ridge!
She had an AA from the local community college in the late 1970's. She was hired by AT&T Bell Labs in Holmdel and years later she was at Basking Ridge.
She had a successful career, never paid for telephone service - never paid for long distance calls too. She had company health insurance at no cost in retirement and a nice pension.
Honestly, I don't know her salary, but she was more than comfortable and did a lot of international travel in retirement. I would guess she made well over $70,000 at the end of her career. Not bad for a community college degree.
While you base your opinions on your experience, I base mine upon my experience. Almost every women I know has had her own income, and most have been sole providers for themselves, and their children if they had any, for much/some of their adult lives. Almost every woman I know has a nest egg, or a pension, and nearly the same SS as I (and most of my male friends/relatives) have. The SS payouts for lower income people are actually a higher percentage of their working wage than those of higher paid individuals. I don't personally know any working women of the BB generation who are struggling more in retirement than an equivalent number of male counterparts. Now my mother's generation (she would be 86 now) there were many, but those now in their 60s and early 70s are a different story.
And fast forward to the Millenials and more women have college degrees than men. In high cost of living knowledge economy areas like NYC and DC, women under 30 out earn men.
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No education or not recognized in the US. 
