On the automotive forum many are convinced that electric cars are the future (pension, generation)
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Most people, excluding long-haul truckers. don't have a need to drive from NY to Vegas in 48 hours as a routine use case, for the 0.0001% that do, then an ICE vehicle is superior for that particular use but EV's will eventually be able to do that better too.
The Lucid Air can go over 500 miles on a charge and most people won't drive over 500 miles without a need to stop and take a break. Within 10 years, we'll see EV's able to go over 1000 miles on a charge.
The biggest obstacle now for EV's is to get the cost and weight down while getting 400+ miles on a charge but eventually that will be done too.
I totally agree with you. People are just not using their heads. What people like trusso11783 don't understand is that while they drive 350 miles a week they do not have to charge it once a week. What they don't understand is that at the end of the day, the vehicle is plugged in at home or if their employer has it set up and get charged and topped off so that every morning, they can have a fully charged vehicle.
That wouldn’t work for me. I drive 350 miles per week to work round trip. So, I would need to recharge at least once each week. It’s the same now in my gas car but I fill up in five minutes and I a, done. I won’t have 30 minutes any day to recharge because I have to race home to watch my two kids. Totally impractical. They won’t improve this any time soon.
Why would you wait a whole week to plug in the car to recharge? You could plug it in every night or every other night at home.
I totally agree with you. People are just not using their heads. What people like trusso11783 don't understand is that while they drive 350 miles a week they do not have to charge it once a week. What they don't understand is that at the end of the day, the vehicle is plugged in at home or if their employer has it set up and get charged and topped off so that every morning, they can have a fully charged vehicle.
To charge my Tesla, it takes 5 seconds to plug it in and 5 seconds to unplug it without leaving my garage and we probably charge it up on average once or twice a week. Certainly, I spend far less time refueling my Tesla than I did on my previous ICE vehicles that I had to drive to a gas station and fill up often in inclement weather.
120 mpge. So, it takes about $5 to charge up my Tesla and I can go about 250 miles on that charge. Far more efficient than a Prius and faster than any ICE car around, what's not to like.
If the only tool you have is a hammer....
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
120 mpge.
MPGe and MPG are both irrelevant to my purchase decision.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
So, it takes about $5 to charge up my Tesla
The price to charge up a Tesla, and analogously, the price to fill the tank with gasoline on a gasoline powered vehicle are both irrelevant to my purchase decision.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
and I can go about 250 miles on that charge.
Range is relevant in my purchase decision, and Tesla's isn't very good compared to alternatives.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
Far more efficient than a Prius
Efficiency isn't relevant to my purchase decision.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
faster than any ICE car around
Did you mean quicker? Regardless, both speed and quickness are irrelevant to my purchase decision past a minimum acceptable threshold which all mainstream modern vehicles exceed.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
what's not to like.
I might or might not actually like owning & driving a Tesla, but your post hasn't given me any reason to even consider one.
My point is that a vehicle is a tool, and and as with all tools, it is good for certain types of problems. The issue with some BEV advocates is they focus on the propulsion system - irrelevant to me - instead of focusing on the problem and the best tool for that problem.
Age 70 and 68. We've already gone 100% electric. Bought 2 Chevy Bolts back in April and June of 2021. Chevy was phasing out the old model and we got amazing price. (about $24.5K). Loved the first one so much 2 months later we bought the second.
So we haven't bought a cent of gas since June 3rd, 2021.
Have a 240 Volt charger installed in garage. Bolts have 259 mile range, we usually charge up every 3rd night or so. Bolts are amazing city cars. Super fun to drive and surprisingly roomy.
Thanks for the review! What is your overall opinion of their "fit & finish", so to speak? Comfort? Road noise? That is, ignoring the powertrain for the moment, how is the rest of the car?
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Originally Posted by Newporttom
Slowly over time the car manufactures will stop producing gas cars because they won't be able to justify the fixed expenses.
There will be a major shift, of course. I doubt ICE will be discontinued, because vehicles are tools to solve problems, and some problems are best solved by ICE powertrains.
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Originally Posted by Newporttom
It will be like the folks that say "I'll never drive an automatic stick shifts are better." You can hardly find a car with a stick shift these. days.
That's largely because of governmental regulations forcing the hands of vehicle manufacturers coupled with the overall affluence of our country allowing people to pay for the more expensive automatic transmission. In the less-regulated and less-affluent 3rd world, there are plenty of sticks.
BATTERY ELECTRIC CARS NEED LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES
IN THE USA, 276 million vehicles were registered in 2019. The figures include passenger cars, motorcycles, trucks, buses, and other vehicles.
A single EV has roughly 10 kilograms—or 22 pounds—of lithium in it. A ton of lithium metal is enough to build about 90 electric cars. Let's run with that in our example.
To build 276 million electric vehicles would require 2,760,000,000 kg (6,072,000,000 lbs) of refined lithium.
2,760,000 tonnes (3,042,379 short tons)
Although the US has the world’s fourth-largest lithium reserves, measured at 6.8 million tonnes according to the US Geological Survey, production activity in the country is minimal.
OKAY, all we need to do is mine, refine one third of all national lithium reserves to replace the current stock of vehicles.
Don’t you feel relieved?
Think of all those investment opportunities - jobs - new mining towns sprouting up.
OR we could buy it from other countries.
Lithium is $21.50 / kg (10/8/2021)
To “buy” 2,760,000,000 kg of lithium, would cost : $59,340,000,000. $59.340 Billion. (assuming high demand doesn't drive up prices)
And if each EV cost $30,000 (on average), to replace 276 million vehicles, would require spending $8,280,000,000,000. $8.2 Trillion.
JUST FOR THE VEHICLES.
Now factor in the trillions to pay for the infrastructure - roads - new electrical power generation - bridges - household charging stations - and still we need petroleum for pavement and lubrication. GOL-LEE, no wonder the HEGEMONY luvs BEVs.
They're going to get rich sucking us dry.
“Blowing up a mountain isn’t green, no matter how much marketing spin people put on it,” said Max Wilbert, who has been living in a tent on the proposed mine site while two lawsuits seeking to block the project wend their way through federal courts.
LIKE one poster pointed out - he'll be dead and gone before this comes to be.
Frankly, the eCONomy will not support such an expense for transportation. IMHO, only a segment of the population will be able to afford "driving a BEV." The rest may be stuck with the costs, hidden in taxes used to subsidize it, but they won't benefit from it.
If common sense and frugality were the norm, and not the exception...
The answer to this question clarifies the situation : WHAT is the most energy efficient form of land transport?
Answer: Based on rolling resistance, steel wheel on steel rail is the most energy efficient form of land transport.
Electric traction railways are the most efficient, especially if they have regenerative braking and can recover energy.
. . .
In other words, if all government meddling (taxes and subsidies) were eliminated, enlightened self interest would lead us to choose the mode that costs us the least to move the most cargo and passengers.
Thus for the remainder of the 21st century, rail based transport would be the dominant form, for 85% to 90% of all travel.
. . .
Oh, and if you drop all subsidies, airlines will probably go bust.
Airlines don’t make their money hauling passengers... They make their money by acting like banks! "Airlines are credit card companies that fly planes as a side hustle" https://youtu.be/ggUduBmvQ_4
And all with the help of government subsidies (at your expense).
MPGe and MPG are both irrelevant to my purchase decision.
The price to charge up a Tesla, and analogously, the price to fill the tank with gasoline on a gasoline powered vehicle are both irrelevant to my purchase decision.
Range is relevant in my purchase decision, and Tesla's isn't very good compared to alternatives.
Efficiency isn't relevant to my purchase decision.
Did you mean quicker? Regardless, both speed and quickness are irrelevant to my purchase decision past a minimum acceptable threshold which all mainstream modern vehicles exceed.
I might or might not actually like owning & driving a Tesla, but your post hasn't given me any reason to even consider one.
My point is that a vehicle is a tool, and and as with all tools, it is good for certain types of problems. The issue with some BEV advocates is they focus on the propulsion system - irrelevant to me - instead of focusing on the problem and the best tool for that problem.
SO if you don't care about efficiency, ease of refueling, cost of refueling, quickness, not polluting your garage and neighborhood with poisonous gasses, what besides range makes you want a particular vehicle?
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