On the automotive forum many are convinced that electric cars are the future (vehicle, transport)

[Toxic Waltz]

EVs day will come, but not as quickly as some people want it to happen. The Automotive sub forum has kind of turned in to an EV fetish forum taken over by a few activists. I've long thought the Automotive forum should have it's own separate EV sub forum to keep those discussions from taking over the main board. Or perhaps the topic could be limited to one of those mega sticky threads. I noticed when left lane camping turned in to such a hot topic they banned it entirely. You can't even mention it. I'm not saying the same needs to be done with the EV topic, but something should be done to keep it from totally taking over that board anymore than it already has.

[Toxic Waltz]

Originally Posted by MG120

Many on this forum probably won't see it, but almost every single manufacturer has stated that they will be full electric, meaning no more ICE, beginning as early as 2025 and no later than 2040. The ICE is dead, it just doesn't know it yet. What I want to know is, how long will they allow gas stations to stay in business selling fossil fuels. At some point, the Gov't will set a mandatory closing/transition date for those stations.

As to battery life, etc. the Fed's mandate a minimum 8 yr/100k mile warranty on them. And the new battery technology, which is changing rapidly, already allows a range of 400 miles per charge. The bigger hold back is the rapid charging technology. But that's changing as well. The world changes, sometimes for the better, sometimes not, we don't have to like it, but we do have to accept it.

Or just flail at the windmills.

The earliest date I've seen is 2030 and the latest is 2050. Also for many of them they plan to just go "majority EV" not completely EV by those dates. Whatever the exact dates are though, I think if they find that the market does not support their timelines, and they see a larger than expected demand for their remaining ICE models and a less than expected demand for their newer EV models, they will rethink their plans at least in the near term.

Like it or not, the consumer will have their say, at least in America outside a few of the deepest blue(Green) states. Even states with mandates will have to rethink things if EVs are not as quickly embraced as they imagine. Arbitrary deadlines can be arbitrarily changed as circumstances demand.

[mshultz]

Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz

EVs day will come, but not as quickly as some people want it to happen. The Automotive sub forum has kind of turned in to an EV fetish forum taken over by a few activists. I've long thought the Automotive forum should have it's own separate EV sub forum to keep those discussions from taking over the main board. Or perhaps the topic could be limited to one of those mega sticky threads. I noticed when left lane camping turned in to such a hot topic they banned it entirely. You can't even mention it. I'm not saying the same needs to be done with the EV topic, but something should be done to keep it from totally taking over that board anymore than it already has.

There's also the activists who try to tell those of us in the snow belt that we don't need AWD or 4WD, just "magic snow tires". And then there's the cult of the manual transmission. Plus the people who try to tell us we should be buying sedans or sports cars instead of SUVs or pickup trucks. What most of these people have in common is that they are not buying new vehicles.

[mshultz]

Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz

The earliest date I've seen is 2030 and the latest is 2050. Also for many of them they plan to just go "majority EV" not completely EV by those dates. Whatever the exact dates are though, I think if they find that the market does not support their timelines, and they see a larger than expected demand for their remaining ICE models and a less than expected demand for their newer EV models, they will rethink their plans at least in the near term.

Like it or not, the consumer will have their say, at least in America outside a few of the deepest blue(Green) states. Even states with mandates will have to rethink things if EVs are not as quickly embraced as they imagine. Arbitrary deadlines can be arbitrarily changed as circumstances demand.

This is what I expect will happen. Those of us who are actually putting up the cash for new vehicles will ultimately decide what will be built.

[Toxic Waltz]

Originally Posted by Newporttom

Every EV is selling like crazy, Tesla's have nearly a year long waiting list. They'll keep grabbing a larger share of the market every year. Slowly over time the car manufactures will stop producing gas cars because they won't be able to justify the fixed expenses.

It will be like the folks that say "I'll never drive an automatic stick shifts are better." You can hardly find a car with a stick shift these. days.

If it's allowed to happen slowly over time then fine, but that's not the transition EV proponents envision. They seek to force people's hands with short term mandates and financial penalties for resisters. I don't think it will work but that doesn't mean some heavy handed people won't give it the good old college try.

Yes, stick shift vehicles are hard to find nowadays. It happened slowly and naturally, over generations, and without any mandates needed. A switch to EVs(and autonomous vehicles as well) should be allowed the same sort of transition. Patience will get you where you want to go.

[Ellwood]

"In order to match the 2,000 cars that a typical filling station can service in a busy 12 hours, an EV charging station would require 600, 50-watt chargers at an estimated cost of $24 million and a supply of 30 megawatts of power from the grid. That is enough to power 20,000 homes. No one likely thinks about the fact that it can take 30 minutes to 8 hours to recharge a vehicle between empty or just topping off. What are the drivers doing during that time?"

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by Ellwood

"In order to match the 2,000 cars that a typical filling station can service in a busy 12 hours, an EV charging station would require 600, 50-watt chargers at an estimated cost of $24 million and a supply of 30 megawatts of power from the grid. That is enough to power 20,000 homes. No one likely thinks about the fact that it can take 30 minutes to 8 hours to recharge a vehicle between empty or just topping off. What are the drivers doing during that time?"

It's not unusual for someone to make a stop after driving 250 miles. You stop to use the rest room and get something to eat. The best of the EV's can charge 80% in 20 minutes. As technology moves forward that all will change.

Again no one is saying that if you can't afford one or it doesn't work for you (it doesn't work at all for most apartment dwellers right now) that you have to buy one. A person buys one because they like them. I like battery operated lots of things. I have a battery operated lawn mower. It's light and it's quiet. I really like it for both of those reasons. Now if you have to cut a golf course, don't get one. It's simple.

For those who like them, stopping to grab a bite to eat after driving 250 miles is no big deal. If you don't want to, don't buy one.

[Tall Traveler]

Originally Posted by Ellwood

"In order to match the 2,000 cars that a typical filling station can service in a busy 12 hours, an EV charging station would require 600, 50-watt chargers at an estimated cost of $24 million and a supply of 30 megawatts of power from the grid. That is enough to power 20,000 homes. No one likely thinks about the fact that it can take 30 minutes to 8 hours to recharge a vehicle between empty or just topping off. What are the drivers doing during that time?"

I highly doubt those numbers in your post. Because EV's are already multiple times more efficient than an EV, the net savings in energy will be enormous once we have significant numbers of EV's. The grid will have to be expanded whether or not we have any more EV's.

I always charge my Tesla at home, and the KW's I use on the Tesla are about 10% of the KW used to power my house. The cost of the electricity for my Tesla is 10-20% of the cost to fuel my previous ICE vehicles to go a similar distance.

[North Beach Person]

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...t-will-it-cost

[Toxic Waltz]

Originally Posted by pknopp

I'll never understand why so many get so upset over the choices others decide to make. If someone likes and buys an EV it's no one elses business. If it doesn't work for you, don't buy one. End of story.

You're aiming your lack of understanding at the wrong side. Few people suggest nobody should be allowed to buy EVs, but there are plenty of people on the EV side who think nobody should be allowed to buy ICEs, or at least not for much longer. The side looking to limit choices is the pro EV side. I can't speak for anyone else but I think EV has the potential to be a great technology and I look forward to the day when that technology is perfected to the point that it becomes so practical that people will CHOOSE to adopt it. What I don't like is efforts to impose artificial timelines and forcing people to adopt the tech in a short period of time whether they feel it's practical for them or not.

If someone buys an EV it's not my business. I hope it works for them and I hope it's a positive experience for them. On the flip side if I choose to buy an ICE, that is my business and I won't support anyone who wants to limit my choices in that matter, especially if they seek to use the heavy hand of the law to do it.