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Every state will have minimum requirements (if they have even thought of it) and then each individual community or corporation will have different contract requirements. There is no national definition of "refundable".
A person I met had an interesting situation. She entered one of these contracts as a single person. Moved in and within two months was married to another new occupant. They had to renegotiate both contracts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenah
I'm curious how the refundable portion of "refundable Entrance Payments" is calculated.
The CCRC in Brentwood, TN mentions Entrance Payments starting at $307,900.
I have looked at retirement communities for independent living, assisted living, and nursing homes in several states. I have found that Fleet Landing meets all the criteria one would have. It is located in Atlantic Beach, Florida, just outside Jacksonville. The Mayo Clinic is just minutes away.
For independent living, they have patio homes (some are lakefront) and apartments. They also have apartments for assisted living. The facilities and staff are the best I have seen anywhere. The residents are generally well-travelled interesting people. Fleet Landing originally was for retired naval and military personnel but has opened up to the general public.
I don't work for them, but this is a ringing endorsement.
As I write this hurricane IAN is headed north into the gulf of Mexico. Living "right by the water" is something to be considered very carefully.
It is wonderful on good days and extremely distressing on bad ones. Been there, done that.
Retirement communities come in many varieties and one must do their "due diligence" very carefully.
A couple of "independent living" facilities I found on line provide 1 meal a day. I get hungry at least 3 times a day.
If you have a car, can you park in within walking distance of your unit? Some of us don't walk as well as we did years ago.
Remember, never again will you be as young as you are right now.
Independent living residences have full kitchens. Most people who live in these residences prefer not to eat all their meals in the facilities dining room, but like to cook or go out to restaurants. Publix and Whole Foods have great meals to-go.
Whilst one meal is included in the fees, you can generally have all your meals provided for an additional cost.
As I write this hurricane IAN is headed north into the gulf of Mexico. Living "right by the water" is something to be considered very carefully.
It is wonderful on good days and extremely distressing on bad ones. Been there, done that.
Looks like hurricane Ian is going to come ashore as a Cat 4 right around Fort Meyers. I am really hoping that monster loses some strength and gets downgraded to a 3 or lower. Horrible, horrible situation.
I'm curious how the refundable portion of "refundable Entrance Payments" is calculated.
The CCRC in Brentwood, TN mentions Entrance Payments starting at $307,900.
Just visited CCRC in Augusta, Ga. A very nice facility with library, salt water pool, hot tub, gym, very upscale looking apartments. The entrance fee for a couple in a 1600 sq ft, 2 bedroom, 1 car garage, cottage was $444,300, with a $5830 monthly fee. Meals were on a point system with enough points each month to cover 1 meal per day. Weekly housekeeping with linen and towel wash included.
A tiny 1 bedroom apartment which would have been much to small for a couple was $270,000 entrance fee with a $4,553 monthly fee.
This is based on a non refundable entrance fee. If you die one month after moving in, entrance fee is lost. The monthly fee goes up to over $8,000 per month if you elect the refundable entrance fee.
I cruise a lot and was expecting to see more of that type atmosphere with people out and about engaged in activities. There was one person in the hot tub and one table of 5-6 people in the dining room eating but that was it. We were there from about 12 noon until 2:00 p.m.
It doesn't seem like you've actually reviewed websites since you think there are average prices. There aren't.
I can highly recommend ACTS Retirement-Life Communities - I worked there as a contractor for years.
You need to decide the basics:
How much do you have to put down (if anything)
How much can you pay each month in rent and ongoing
How much do they charge for Independent level, then Assisted, then Skilled and is Memory Care included in Skilled or even available.
What is your criteria for meals. (At ACTS you see couples dining in the dining room dressed (no casual permitted), or getting meals delivered to their home/condo.
Do they have In-House home health care agency they use or how do they handle that and what are the fees including minimum requirements.
What do they charge if you live in Independent but call for home health or security to come pick you up off the floor (if anything)
Is there a shortage of staff expecially for as-needed support such as various therapies or CNA/Home Health aides.
Pets.
etc etc
The list is LONG and you should be asking the Caregiving Forum if this is all new to you.
Just visited CCRC in Augusta, Ga. A very nice facility with library, salt water pool, hot tub, gym, very upscale looking apartments. The entrance fee for a couple in a 1600 sq ft, 2 bedroom, 1 car garage, cottage was $444,300, with a $5830 monthly fee. Meals were on a point system with enough points each month to cover 1 meal per day. Weekly housekeeping with linen and towel wash included.
A tiny 1 bedroom apartment which would have been much to small for a couple was $270,000 entrance fee with a $4,553 monthly fee.
This is based on a non refundable entrance fee. If you die one month after moving in, entrance fee is lost. The monthly fee goes up to over $8,000 per month if you elect the refundable entrance fee.
I cruise a lot and was expecting to see more of that type atmosphere with people out and about engaged in activities. There was one person in the hot tub and one table of 5-6 people in the dining room eating but that was it. We were there from about 12 noon until 2:00 p.m.
I'm not so sure you understood that correctly and before you go stating mistaken facts I think you should be giving the name of the place so people can judge for themselves.
And LOL expecting to see busy activities during the MEAL period?
It doesn't seem like you've actually reviewed websites since you think there are average prices. There aren't.
I can highly recommend ACTS Retirement-Life Communities - I worked there as a contractor for years.
You need to decide the basics:
How much do you have to put down (if anything)
How much can you pay each month in rent and ongoing
How much do they charge for Independent level, then Assisted, then Skilled and is Memory Care included in Skilled or even available.
What is your criteria for meals. (At ACTS you see couples dining in the dining room dressed (no casual permitted), or getting meals delivered to their home/condo.
Do they have In-House home health care agency they use or how do they handle that and what are the fees including minimum requirements.
What do they charge if you live in Independent but call for home health or security to come pick you up off the floor (if anything)
Is there a shortage of staff expecially for as-needed support such as various therapies or CNA/Home Health aides.
Pets.
etc etc
The list is LONG and you should be asking the Caregiving Forum if this is all new to you.
Thank you! Very good list of questions. We are some ways from this but I do have a follow up...
While we have sufficient assets to be able to afford the entrance fee, my worry about the model is that one pays the entrance fee up-front based upon what one can observe and what is represented to them (by the facility or even honest resident feedback). But, what happens when the facility gets sold afterward or standards decline after entering and presumably living some time in the facility. Is that a risk people just bear or are there safeguards that are available?
The CCRC concept suits us but the prospect of an unacceptable decline in facility or services after being vested in (i.e., having irrevocably paid the hefty entrance fee) is our biggest mental hurdle.
Just visited CCRC in Augusta, Ga. A very nice facility with library, salt water pool, hot tub, gym, very upscale looking apartments. The entrance fee for a couple in a 1600 sq ft, 2 bedroom, 1 car garage, cottage was $444,300, with a $5830 monthly fee. Meals were on a point system with enough points each month to cover 1 meal per day. Weekly housekeeping with linen and towel wash included.
A tiny 1 bedroom apartment which would have been much to small for a couple was $270,000 entrance fee with a $4,553 monthly fee.
This is based on a non refundable entrance fee. If you die one month after moving in, entrance fee is lost. The monthly fee goes up to over $8,000 per month if you elect the refundable entrance fee.
I cruise a lot and was expecting to see more of that type atmosphere with people out and about engaged in activities. There was one person in the hot tub and one table of 5-6 people in the dining room eating but that was it. We were there from about 12 noon until 2:00 p.m.
Good info. One thing we noticed when visiting one Sr. apt complex was that at lunch time during the week the dining room was packed. Went back to the same place on a Sat at lunch time and there was a handful of people. I asked a resident where everyone was and she said it cleared out on the weekend as people went home to their families. I was pretty surprised. Said good things about the families in that area that they came to get their seniors on weekends.
It wasn't a ccrc but a sr. living community with all the assisted living help available through on an ala-carte basis. No buy-in since it is just a rental. If you need memory care or skilled nursing you would have to go to another facility. But I really liked it.
Single level apt with vaulted ceilings, nice layouts and screened in patios for every unit. Grocery store walkable across the street. Sr. city transportation came to the facility or buy their transport package or use their transport package ala-carte. Pretty treed surrounding. Big wide hallways with skylights and everything interconnected so you could exercise inside during the winter. https://www.hilltopvillage.com/
I find this sort of place much more palatable than the expensive buy-in places. They offer the following services on an ala-carte or bundled package basis but the fee is reasonable. Our Services
■ 3 Meals A Day
■ Emergency Call Pendant System
■ Medication and Meal Reminders
■ Wellness Checks
■ Stand-By-Bathing (once a week)
■ Weekly Laundry and Linen Change
■ Bi-Weekly Housekeeping
■ Transportation
■ Pet-Friendly
■ Reserved Parking
■ Covered Parking
■ Meal Tickets – Enjoy a meal with your loved one
■ Breakfast Card: 5 Breakfasts
■ Lunch Card: 5 Lunches
■ Dinner Card: 5 Dinners
We talked to residents a couple of times on different days and were pleased with what we observed and heard. I told my mom if it was me this is the place I would choose. Ultimately she chose another place closer to my brother and her old neighborhood. The place she chose was horrible and we had to move her. I think she was taken in by the fancy surroundings. I wasn't for it as I felt the employees we met were "hard". They seemed like they could barely be pleasant during the interview stage and turned out they were really unpleasant when you were a resident.
My mom is currently in a no buy-in facility that has independent living, memory care and skilled nursing. She has been in all 3 levels and we are pleased with the care. Everything is on a monthly basis so no buy-in. You need a couple of years of private pay but then they will keep you on medicaid if you run out of money. She is currently in their memory care on medicaid and we are super pleased with the service. The employees are pleasant, caring and treat her with compassion. She likes it and so do we. https://vsecommunities.org/
I found one other no-buy in rental place that I thought sounded very good. I was searching for a relative. It also has all levels of care, assisted living, memory care and skilled nursing. I talked to them on the phone, read their documents and checked their medicare.gov rating. I have not been there but for someone looking in the Oregon area I think this would be a solid choice to check out.
Based on my limited experience searching for relatives, good places can be found with fair financial arrangements but they do take some leg work to locate.
I'm not so sure you understood that correctly and before you go stating mistaken facts I think you should be giving the name of the place so people can judge for themselves.
And LOL expecting to see busy activities during the MEAL period?
I could have misunderstood - it's been known to happen. The buy in and monthly fees were written on the floor plans for us and I know those are correct. We did discuss a refundable option where you could pay a higher monthly fee and a portion of the buy in would be refundable but phased out at a rate of 2 percent per month, but that was not an option that was being recommended so not a lot of time was spent on it. DH said there was a 4 month contract cancellation period where you get a full refund so I guess we would be refunded if we both die during that period as well.
There is only one CCRC in the Augusta area (its actually in Evans, Ga, but nobody knows where that is), so its easy enough to google. Like I said, its a very nice place and something I would certainly consider but probably not for at least another 5-10 years.
Not sure what else you think I might have misunderstood.
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