Barriers to Revitalization of inner Providence (2014, credit, employment)

[ormari]

Originally Posted by neguy99

The sort of people that have been revitalizing Portland and Seattle are indeed present in New England too -- in Boston.

This is very much a national trend. Only a few large hubs are seeing the kind of revitalization that you are talking about. Cities that are more analogous of Providence, Worcester, or New Bedford have not been doing well in Oregon and Washington either.

And even among regional hub metros, Portland and Seattle are outliers -- Portland was by a good margin the most rapidly gentrifying city in the country according to one recent metric. For every success story like Portland, there is a Kansas City where virtually no inner core revitalization is happening, just more and more sprawl and core decay. It's not easy.

I am under the impression that Washington DC and Chicago have similar sorts of revitalization, though as you say those are large hubs.

What cities are analogous to Providence, Worcester, or New Bedford in the Pacific NW?

[ormari]

I guess another factor would be the reputedly lackluster Providence Public School system, though I have talked with some who have sent their kids to the public schools and say that the school bashing is unjustified.

[neguy99]

Originally Posted by ormari

I am under the impression that Washington DC and Chicago have similar sorts of revitalization, though as you say those are large hubs.

What cities are analogous to Providence, Worcester, or New Bedford in the Pacific NW?

"though as you say those are large hubs".

That's sort of the point. Providence is a lot more like Wilmington, DE; New Haven, CT; or Rochester NY than it is like Washington or Chicago.

Washington is totally unique due to the massive growth in federal spending on highly-paid, security-related professional services and IT after 9/11. Sure, the District has done some things right in making the central city attractive. But sprucing up Dupont Circle didn't create those new contractor jobs, nor even draw them to the greater DC area, it just affected how many lived in town vs Loudon County.

In the Pacific NW, Tacoma, WA would be the most direct example -- manufacturing / military second fiddle to Seattle, hit hard by decline in both of those sectors, in some ways actually getting worse now as the poor from Seattle are displaced there.

You could point to other mid-size manufacturing oriented cities within an hour or two of SEA/PDX, like Longview, WA; Albany-Corvallis OR; even university town Eugene, OR isn't doing particularly well, outside of construction of new sports facilities (thanks, Nike!). Or Milwaukee, WI would be a better match to what PVD faces.

[neguy99]

Just to add to that, Portland's revitalization depended not just on making smart inner-city transit and recreation decisions, but on the fact that a little company called Intel has their largest single employment center in the world in the Portland suburbs -- nearly 20,000 direct employees in the Portland area at an average pay of over 100,000/year. That doesn't count all of their vendors, sub-contractors, construction and maintenance projects, etc. Intel is the key, though. You could add Nike too, and in fact Nike's HQ is close to Intel, out in the suburbs.

All that booming economic activity out in the suburbs helped create enough job, population, and revenue growth for the whole region to make those central city investments possible. Portland's hit a takeoff point where the central core is attracting major business too, not just the skyscraper area downtown but redeveloped industrial/ghetto areas. But the real development engine for the metro area has been the technology cluster in the suburbs.

What attracted Intel and similar firms? Cheap electricity and cheap water; large contiguous tracts of affordable land and reasonably pro-development local governments; within a 2 hour flight of Silicon Valley (close to Microsoft, too); already a cluster of tech employees (grew around local firm Textronix), city that had outdoor recreation and livability.

Likewise, big money from Microsoft and Amazon has been absolutely critical in catalyzing the revitalization of inner Seattle. A good base of steady, well-paid union manfacturing jobs at Boeing hasn't hurt, either.

[Hollytree]

Second what neguy just wrote. I think the barrier is just lack of sufficient professional jobs to attract enough incoming with money. Although people complain about gentrification, neighborhoods won't change if a low income core stays put.

[ormari]

Originally Posted by neguy99

Just to add to that, Portland's revitalization depended not just on making smart inner-city transit and recreation decisions, but on the fact that a little company called Intel has their largest single employment center in the world in the Portland suburbs -- nearly 20,000 direct employees in the Portland area at an average pay of over 100,000/year. That doesn't count all of their vendors, sub-contractors, construction and maintenance projects, etc. Intel is the key, though. You could add Nike too, and in fact Nike's HQ is close to Intel, out in the suburbs.

Interesting perspective. Do you have a source for the average pay figures you cite for Intel?

[neguy99]

Intel report pegs its Oregon payroll at $1.8 billion | OregonLive.com

In 2011 they were averaging $117,000/employee (including bonuses). I would bet it's higher now.

When blue-chip, high-tech firms would rather put their major research and engineering groups in Providence or East Greenwich instead of Lexington or Burlington MA, you'll see PVD gentrify and revitalize.

[ormari]

Thanks for the link. I must have missed that in the Big O, which I read only sporadically.

I generally agree with your perspective. The tech presence in Lexington/Burlington is--in no small way--due to the presence of MIT Lincoln Labs and Hanscom Air Force Base. PVD is not likely to have anything remotely similar to that anytime soon, unless you can foresee the US Navy expanding its RI presence through a branch of its Research Laboratory. Think Jack Reed can pull it off??? I guess he was in the Army, so probably not likely...

So, PVD has Textron with an HQ in downtown Providence, though I honestly have no idea how much activity they really have here. Raytheon has a presence in Portsmouth though I think HQ is in Waltham, MA.

In 2011, Brown U had been working to build the "knowledge district", though I have no idea where that is today.

Blue chip, high-tech firms will put their R&D groups in Providence when we have a deep, tech savvy talent pool at the ready, people who tend to be attracted to cities with a high quality of life and urban conveniences.

[AlfieBoy]

Originally Posted by neguy99

Intel report pegs its Oregon payroll at $1.8 billion | OregonLive.com

In 2011 they were averaging $117,000/employee (including bonuses). I would bet it's higher now.

When blue-chip, high-tech firms would rather put their major research and engineering groups in Providence or East Greenwich instead of Lexington or Burlington MA, you'll see PVD gentrify and revitalize.

For example, Intel paid its employees annual salaries, bonuses worth more than $117,000 on average. By comparison, ECONorthwest says that the average annual salary in Oregon was just under $40,000 in 2009. In Washington County, it was $52,200

The average salary of plop docs is $440,000. That does not reflect the salary of average workers or even the average salary of doctors in general. I don't see how your cherry-picked stat has any value, merit or relevancy to the discussion in any manner.

The average annual wage in Rhode Island is $52,800. The average annual wage in Oregon is $45,780. Cite is from BLS and reflects 2013 stats.

Oregon is attractive to chip manufacturers because of its low cost of energy (hydro-power) and abundance of water. It is a low density industry and employs relatively few people. Not relevant to the convo.

Enjoy the snow, everybody! Wish I had my old Flexible Flyer because South Court Street is virgin territory for "sliding" right now, save for the nuisance of Benefit Street's busy intersection. I mean, talk about the potential for roadkill!

[ormari]

Originally Posted by AlfieBoy

The average salary of plop docs is $340,000. That does not reflect the salary of average workers or even the average salary of of doctors in general. I don't see how this stat has any value, merit or relevancy to the discussion.

The average annual wage in Rhode Island is $52,800. The average annual wage in Oregon is $45,780. Cite is from BLS and reflects 2013 stats.

Oregon is attractive to chip manufacturers because of its low cost of energy (hydro-power) and abundance of water. It is a low density industry and employs relatively few people. Not relevant to the convo.

Enjoy the snow, everybody!

I don't know what a plop doc is, and not sure I want to know!

I kind of think Alfie has a point but perhaps a bit overstated. Intel is the 5th largest employer in Oregon. The top 4 employers are hospitals/universities. Which brings up the point that Oregon Health and Sciences University, a major employer and driver of the economy, is roughly "ranked" where Brown's Med school is. I don't know how they compare in research dollar brought in, nor spin-offs generated...

I assume when they talk average, they mean the mean, not median (or mode). Average annual wage of Oregon is probably less relevant than the average annual wage of Washington County (Oregon), or Metro Portland, as rural Eastern Oregon, Coastal Oregon, etc., are much, much lower and will tend to skew the numbers down somewhat, even though population there is but a fragment of the state. And certainly if Intel is paying in that range, then other tech companies must be competitive. Do tech companies in RI pay comparably?