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Fine, no problem, then, for you to provide a stout cite, maybe two, confirming your claim? I mean, as we see from Holly's debunked post, assertions are opinions when no meaningful citation is provided.
Unfortunately, AB, it is real. There have been news series about it here, locally, although it is not a local problem, so does pertain to RI. There are "panhandling consortiums" here. The money is really THAT good. On the right corner, with the right look, one makes hundreds per day. There are hierarchies, and even management.. sort of. Ringleaders for whom the pandhandlers work, for a cut, of course. There are videos posted of the "homeless" parking their late model cars behind the local 7-11 and walking to "their corner".. unfortunately it is not a rare occurrence.
We do not give money to the homeless. Instead, this year, we are organizing a large event at our house for 50 or 60 of our friends to compile care packages. We have stockpiled quite a bit of essentials - baby wipes, socks, snack packs, fresh fruit (not compiled yet, but will be the day before we go out), lotion, Purell, etc. We will be making these care packages, and driving to where the TRUE homeless congregate, and passing out as many as we can make. Conservatively, we're thinking 300-500 such packages.
Hopefully that will have a greater positive impact than releasing more cash into the system.
This is true (and my post is "debunked" only in AB's mind). This phenomenon has been well documented. Panhandling pays well- to the tune of hundreds a day- or they wouldn't be doing it. I personally observe people giving money all the time.
This is true (and my post is "debunked" only in AB's mind). This phenomenon has been well documented. Panhandling pays well- to the tune of hundreds a day- or they wouldn't be doing it. I personally observe people giving money all the time.
Like Raiderman says, if you want to be charitable, do it right.
Yes, your post was thoroughly debunked. You claimed that the homeless, well, "They're not veterans...", yet I supplied data from the VA that 16% of homeless people are Vets. That is debunking your myth. Let's recall the definition of debunked: "To expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief)."
Your claim was false, a myth and is a fact only in the febrile brains of those who cast a cruel eye and heart on society's failures.
You asserted that ."..they're mostly young healthy people...," yet I provided a citation from a national homeless organization that documents through, you remember, a census and study -- fact based, reality based stuff -- that document 55% of homeless people are over 30. So that myth of yours, well that was debunked. You transmogrify your drive-by observations into fact. Holly, these are not facts; they are assumptions. Assumptions, though, are just that—and your personal feelings and assumptions are not data.
I come with facts by NGOs and government agencies, and you come up with "well I was driving on North Main and blah blah blah." Sorry, won't do -- it just won't do, not among people who respect facts.
My personal observations are better than your non personal observations. You don't drive- you don't go anywhere to observe this phenomenon outside of College Hill and downtown and you disdain anyone who does drive outside of their tiny hood.
As far as "casting a cruel eye on society's failures", that is laughable when it come to professional panhandlers. Haven't you heard of Crossroads and the homeless shelters and all the other programs RI provides? There are suitable alternates to begging in the streets. You probably did not even watch my links on the rise of these panhandlers.
I stand fully by my personal observations and am sure that our readers can make their own judgements. Finis.
My personal observations are better than your non personal observations. You don't drive- you don't go anywhere to observe this phenomenon outside of College Hill and downtown and you disdain anyone who does drive outside of their tiny hood.
As far as "casting a cruel eye on society's failures", that is laughable when it come to professional panhandlers. Haven't you heard of Crossroads and the homeless shelters and all the other programs RI provides? There are suitable alternates to begging in the streets. You probably did not even watch my links on the rise of these panhandlers.
I stand fully by my personal observations and am sure that our readers can make their own judgements. Finis.
Those who place supremacy on personal biases and willingly choose to ignore reality-based fact generally hate having their prejudices exposed. I can easily see where you'd like to gloss past this terribly revealing bias of yours. And, BTW, you don't know me, you have no idea where I travel, where I work, where I have been or where I will go.
Fine, no problem, then, for you to provide a stout cite, maybe two, confirming your claim? I mean, as we see from Holly's debunked post, assertions are opinions when no meaningful citation is provided.
I think it is doubtful that there is scientific data on how many homeless are actually homeless, and how many are working it as a business. Just like there is no scientific data on how the $1 you give a homeless person is spent.
Some statements are based on human observation. When I watch a video that my personal friend took of a "homeless" person getting out of their late model Camry, and walking to the corner to beg with their sign, that is not scientific. In fact, it could be staged, edited post-production, etc. However, I believe it because I know my friend (and they really aren't computer savvy enough to create a hoax video).
There have been news reports of "panhandling as a business". The results vary by source, with some articles focusing on how much they make, and some articles focusing on how little they make, it just depends on the bias of the site.
Yes, your post was thoroughly debunked. You claimed that the homeless, well, "They're not veterans...", yet I supplied data from the VA that 16% of homeless people are Vets. That is debunking your myth. Let's recall the definition of debunked: "To expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief)."
Your claim was false, a myth and is a fact only in the febrile brains of those who cast a cruel eye and heart on society's failures.
You asserted that ."..they're mostly young healthy people...," yet I provided a citation from a national homeless organization that documents through, you remember, a census and study -- fact based, reality based stuff -- that document 55% of homeless people are over 30. So that myth of yours, well that was debunked. You transmogrify your drive-by observations into fact. Holly, these are not facts; they are assumptions. Assumptions, though, are just that—and your personal feelings and assumptions are not data.
I come with facts by NGOs and government agencies, and you come up with "well I was driving on North Main and blah blah blah." Sorry, won't do -- it just won't do, not among people who respect facts.
That 16% of homeless people are vets (nationally), and that 55% of homeless people are over 30 (nationally); does not tell us anything on the scope of panhandling in RI. For that theory to work; you have to assume that most homeless panhandle (they do not), and that all panhandlers are homeless (they are not).
I think it is doubtful that there is scientific data on how many homeless are actually homeless, and how many are working it as a business. Just like there is no scientific data on how the $1 you give a homeless person is spent.
Some statements are based on human observation. When I watch a video that my personal friend took of a "homeless" person getting out of their late model Camry, and walking to the corner to beg with their sign, that is not scientific. In fact, it could be staged, edited post-production, etc. However, I believe it because I know my friend (and they really aren't computer savvy enough to create a hoax video).
There have been news reports of "panhandling as a business". The results vary by source, with some articles focusing on how much they make, and some articles focusing on how little they make, it just depends on the bias of the site.
Well said. On hardly expects there to be data on professional panhandling- it will be anecdotal and observational. Trying to paint someone who has seen it as basically cruel, prejudiced, and hating the serving poor is an enormous stretch.
Well said. On hardly expects there to be data on professional panhandling- it will be anecdotal and observational. Trying to paint someone who has seen it as basically cruel, prejudiced, and hating the serving poor is an enormous stretch.
Well you certainly felt otherwise in your revealing and disastrous post, post #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree
North Providence has never been where a "higher class of people lived".
However, I know what you mean about the explosion of bums. They are all over and nationwide. Seekonk, MA, has them at every stop light. It is a spreading problem since the professional panhandlers figured out how much income tax free money they could make by not working even though unemployment has dropped, not only in RI, but across the country:
It's a huge scam- don't donate- you will only encourage more to come out and do this. Ironic, too, since there are new businesses opening in Seekonk on rte 6 with help wanted signs up.
I mean, you were pretty darned certain that you were on terra firma with your strange cite in post #3 and felt quite comfortable making outlandish claims, claims that, yes, were debunked whether you are to admit it or not.
But we've been on this sad and tired road of certain posters bashing the poor and minorities and then exclaiming, "Why How Could You Say That!"
I'm content to leave this rubble as is, as there's no arguing with a fixed mind. And of course, I've always thought Maya Angelou really summed it up nicely about people who reveal more than they perhaps intended to make so public:
Quote:
“When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.”
My personal observations are better than your non personal observations. You don't drive- you don't go anywhere to observe this phenomenon outside of College Hill and downtown and you disdain anyone who does drive outside of their tiny hood.
As far as "casting a cruel eye on society's failures", that is laughable when it come to professional panhandlers. Haven't you heard of Crossroads and the homeless shelters and all the other programs RI provides? There are suitable alternates to begging in the streets. You probably did not even watch my links on the rise of these panhandlers.
I stand fully by my personal observations and am sure that our readers can make their own judgements. Finis.
Holly, I drive and I see homeless people all the time holding up signs saying that they are veterans. How can you tell from looking at them whether or not they are? I'm always skeptical that they are really veterans, but I would really have no way of KNOWING. I have a nephew who came back after two tours with some really serious problems and he would be homeless without a lot of intervention from his family.
(Shelters kick the homeless every morning and do not put money in their pocket. Many homeless people avoid the shelters because they either don't feel safe there - particularly homeless with children - or because they're mentally ill/have gotten into trouble there)
Economists tell us that this last recession was much worse than previous ones in one significant way - people who don't find a job quickly may never get hired again. Many companies will not even read resumes from people who aren't currently employed.
Last edited by sandsonik; 11-16-2015 at 10:30 PM..
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