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Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,778 posts, read 2,692,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp775
The issue wasn't funding, it was the curvature of the tracks through the station.
So, I glanced a little at some of the info about this station. Cost, curvature and Amtrak were among the reasons. This Projo article from last year cites the track curvature at the old station as a problem.
Quote:
Early discussions of restoring commuter rail service to the area focused on the 1916 train station on the Pawtucket-Central Falls line, which now sits derelict under private ownership after trains last stopped there in 1959. But in addition to the potentially steep cost of restoring the building, its location on a curve makes it less than ideal, planners said.
John Pierro of Providence called the proposal "exciting," and asked why the defunct "beautiful" and "historic" train station in Pawtucket cannot be renovative for train service, rather than creating a new depot.
Velickovic said Amtrak owns the train tracks and would require the MBTA train to pull over on a separate track when making stops. She said there is not enough room in the old station for that required additional track.
Furthermore, the station is built on a curve in the tracks, and that would make it impractical to use a high-rise platform for handicapped access, she said.
It reads to me like they wanted to reuse the station, but Amtrak, for very practical reasons, wouldn't give them the design waiver they needed.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
The S Attleboro stop is right on the line, and accessible to that whole part of Pawtucket. They just need to build more parking there, maybe a garage.
I am pretty sure that is not what the people of Pawtucket want. And your vision seems to be exactly what the project planners are trying to avoid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Projo, Feb 01, 2015
Unlike South Attleboro station a few miles away, planners don’t envision the Pawtucket Station as primarily a suburban “park-n-ride” facility accessed by cars, but an urban station many would get to by foot, bike or bus. Plans call for 207 parking spaces to be built and maintained by the owners of the Union Wadding apartment complex next door.
I don't really know why you are so vehemently against Pawtucket's continuing efforts to revitalize itself. You seem to complain about the people and the health of the city but then rail against improvements. It seems to me that the city has identified that commuter rail is a valuable asset and they have been fighting for the return of passenger rail for decades. It's not a fly-by-night idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
Like most Commuter Rail lots, they are already way over capacity there (and the new MB isn't helping). Building "Up" is the answer ,and that also could provide a more secure environment there, which has long been an issue at that station. It could be privately funded, and easily pay for itself.
Building the Pawtucket Station is projected to help alleviate the over capacity issue at South Attleboro, though we'll just have to wait to see if the projection is correct. By filtering off Pawtucket and other RI sourced commuters, one would expect increased parking availability at South Attleboro. Of course that in turn could draw in more ridership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Projo, Feb 01, 2015
Estimates suggest the new station would serve 1,500 to 1,900 riders per day and Pawtucket Planning Director Barney Heath said they would likely be a mix of Boston commuters who now get on the train in Providence or Attleboro, people who live near the station and work in Boston or Providence, and, hopefully, residents of those cities taking advantage of the inexpensive commercial space to work nearby.
I fear the Pawtucket/Central Falls station will need to be demolished soon. It is increasingly less stable and becomes a danger to falling onto the tracks below. Trains currently slow down because of it. It adds an extra 2-5 minutes to the schedule because of the slow down on Amtrak and especially the MBTA. I would think that the planned station would need two extra tracks for the local service. Currently the line has 40 passenger trains each way on it. Add the proposed BSRC service and it could be up to 45. P & W runs 4-5 trains thru the area daily.
Wouldn't call Main St. "nice". There is a little bit of good remaining architecture around, but it's not cohesive. It would require enormous investment and infill to make the downtown area a go-to place. Waltham, don't see it. The high tech doesn't exist there, nor does proximity to Cambridge, Watertown, etc. (Providence is no comparison). Its closest comparison would be Lynn, which is also on the Commuter Rail and likewise has some converted loft type stuff around, yet its downtown is just a "dud". They have been pushing for a Blue Line extension forever to there, as Commuter Rail just isn't doing it for the place.
To each their own. Whether you like the architecture or not, Main St. is still a largely unbroken stretch of wall-to-wall buildings and sidewalk abutting storefronts. It would require zero infill to turn that into a vibrant stretch, just some incentive for business to utilize the existing storefronts (new residences geared toward middle class workers/commuters will do just that). Off of Main Street, there are gaps to fill, but still good bones. Main St. is a good place for a revitalization of downtown Pawtucket to begin.
I understand that the Boston area is a different animal, but I stand by the Waltham comparison. The tech in Waltham is spread in suburban office park developments along 128. I'm talking about central Waltham, which is an old manufacturing center on a swift flowing river just outside the core of the principal city in the metro area, just like Pawtucket. Providence isn't where Boston is in terms of revitalization (most cities in the U.S. aren't), but Pawtucket has the potential for a similar connection to Providence as Waltham does to Boston on an obviously smaller scale. Providence, especially the East Side, is better connected to Pawtucket than Walatham is to Cambridge and especially Boston, but the ease of access is there in both cases (not so with Lynn). Moody Street in Waltham isn't actually an architectural showcase, but it's managed to be a vibrant revitalized urban stretch in an old Mill town. Main Street in Pawtucket has a lot of similarities although I'd say Main St. is more blessed architecturally and it leads to a nice waterfront historic park (nicer than Moody at the Charles River). Not sure why having Watertown nearby would be so appealing to anyone looking at Waltham?
Lynn, on the other hand, is far more disconnected from the urban core. It's an island. There are similarities in the city center, but getting from Boston to Lynn and vice-versa isn't easy or direct. Lynn needs the Blue Line because there's little incentive to be so close to Boston yet relatively disconnected. Pawtucket already has rapid transit (R-Line BRT). Waltham is much better tied in, the same way Pawtucket is to Providence. When you factor in a commuter connection to Boston, Pawtucket becomes even more appealing because it opens up access to employment opportunities that weren't nearly as accessible before (2 seat rides or having to drive to the next town over repel potential riders).
Waltham is a great comparison. One thing I've noticed in downtown Waltham is that 1960s urban renewal office buildings are being demolished and replaced with more appropriate buildings with a defined street wall:
^^^ Good paying jobs, a robust economy, low crime, well-kept homes and properties, intelligent and forward-thinking elected officials (not spendthrifts), clean modern and modernized infrastructure, good roads, quality of life, education and medical facilities, reasonable property taxes.
What's next? millions or billions of dollars to 'update' CF, its 'sister city'. Paid by all the taxpayers in the country with federal money. Not enough local money to do much in Pawtucket; it has evolved and will most likely stay a low income crime ridden area. It will take years for Pawtucket to rebound, years.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,778 posts, read 2,692,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuilterChick
^^^ Good paying jobs, a robust economy, low crime, well-kept homes and properties, intelligent and forward-thinking elected officials (not spendthrifts), clean modern and modernized infrastructure, good roads, quality of life, education and medical facilities, reasonable property taxes.
What's next? millions or billions of dollars to 'update' CF, its 'sister city'. Paid by all the taxpayers in the country with federal money. Not enough local money to do much in Pawtucket; it has evolved and will most likely stay a low income crime ridden area. It will take years for Pawtucket to rebound, years.
But this is an effort to make the infrastructure "clean and modernized". This will improve quality of life. This should lead to more local jobs if businesses take advantage of the new infrastructure. And given that the elected officials have the vision to work for a commuter rail stop in Pawtucket/CF, it seems to me that those involved in pushing this project are forward-thinking. Glad that Sen. Reed was able to bring in some long overdue funding. Further, smart investments in neighborhoods tend to encourage property owners to make further investments in their existing property(ies).
As to Federal dollars going to this project, yes, the state is getting a TIGER grant. The total federal budget for TIGER grants nationwide in 2016 is $500 million. This project is ~13 million, or roughly 2.6% of the total TIGER grant budget. That doesn't sound like RI is getting away with more than its fair share. And projects such as these help states and the country meet carbon emissions targets we have agreed to as a nation. This will help Mass. as well, since it will keep vehicles off of Mass. roads. Some local dollars will be used as well.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
3,778 posts, read 2,692,075 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2448
I fear the Pawtucket/Central Falls station will need to be demolished soon. It is increasingly less stable and becomes a danger to falling onto the tracks below. Trains currently slow down because of it. It adds an extra 2-5 minutes to the schedule because of the slow down on Amtrak and especially the MBTA. I would think that the planned station would need two extra tracks for the local service. Currently the line has 40 passenger trains each way on it. Add the proposed BSRC service and it could be up to 45. P & W runs 4-5 trains thru the area daily.
Well it will be a shame if they have to do so. Can you share your source that indicates it is becoming unstable and a threat to the tracks below? I haven't seen that.
^^^ Good paying jobs, a robust economy, low crime, well-kept homes and properties, intelligent and forward-thinking elected officials (not spendthrifts), clean modern and modernized infrastructure, good roads, quality of life, education and medical facilities, reasonable property taxes.
What's next? millions or billions of dollars to 'update' CF, its 'sister city'. Paid by all the taxpayers in the country with federal money. Not enough local money to do much in Pawtucket; it has evolved and will most likely stay a low income crime ridden area. It will take years for Pawtucket to rebound, years.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
And what do you do to bring good paying jobs, a robust economy and well kept homes? How do you get a clean and modernized infrastructure without spending any money - and isn't public transportation part of that infrastructure?
I think a train station is a start, if only the commuter rail were faster. It will attract people who have a long commute to Boston and don't wish to add any more time to that commute than they have to. If you're saying local money can't do it, don't you have to attract money from out of the area? If not this way, then how?
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