Fox Hill Neighborhood in Providence -- Pros/Cons?? (For Semi-Retired Couple Looking for Small Condo with Charm) (Newport: real estate, renting)

[Barbara Bauer]

My husband and I are looking for a small city to settle in, one with a very good walkability score, low crime and lots of community activities. Our budget is limited up to about $200K. Would Fox Hill neighborhood in Providence fit the bill provided we settle for a very small condo? Any info appreciated.

[ormari]

Fox Point and College Hill are two adjacent neighborhoods. Check RIliving.com, selecting "East Side of Providence" for the "city" to search real estate in those two neighborhoods. You'll get your own sense of pricing from a quick search.

East Side of Providence isn't a separate city from Providence, but the local real estate industry, perhaps in a tip of the hat to Jim Crow, segregates those listings from the rest of the city.

[tk421991]

Originally Posted by ormari

Fox Point and College Hill are two adjacent neighborhoods. Check RIliving.com, selecting "East Side of Providence" for the "city" to search real estate in those two neighborhoods. You'll get your own sense of pricing from a quick search.

East Side of Providence isn't a separate city from Providence, but the local real estate industry, perhaps in a tip of the hat to Jim Crow, segregates those listings from the rest of the city.

It has nothing to do with "Jim Crow", it has to do with different zip codes. The eastern part of Providence is 02906, whereas the center of Providence is 02903. Real estate listings are categorized by zip code. If you look at more rural areas, they still follow the pattern of zip codes. Chepachet, RI and Harmony, RI are both in the Town of Glocester, but have different zip codes. So if I plug in 02814, I'll get Chepachet houses. If I plug in 02829, I'll get Harmony.

Edit: Your opinion that they "segregate" out minorities from the eastern side of Providence is incorrect. I've met plenty of black people in the East Side who weren't college students, etc.

[ormari]

Originally Posted by tk421991

It has nothing to do with "Jim Crow", it has to do with different zip codes. The eastern part of Providence is 02906, whereas the center of Providence is 02903. Real estate listings are categorized by zip code. If you look at more rural areas, they still follow the pattern of zip codes. Chepachet, RI and Harmony, RI are both in the Town of Glocester, but have different zip codes. So if I plug in 02814, I'll get Chepachet houses. If I plug in 02829, I'll get Harmony.

Interesting. I wonder if it's true.

Hypothesis: RI Realtors group East Side of Providence listings separately because they are all in the same zip code, namely 02906. The fictitious city of "East Side of Providence" is merely a zip code grouping.

Expermental method I: Check listings within the city "Providence" as categorized on RIliving.com website. Select the Property search tab, select single, multi, and condo type properties. Identify any listings which may have the 02906 zip code within the RIliving.com city category "Providence", by clicking on Property Search and add city of "Providence" selecting to the search query. Filter results for zip codes which should not be in the category by entering 02906.

Data and Analysis: Within the city of Providence as categorized by RIliving.com, there are presently 15 listed properties which have 02906 zip codes in the RIliving.com database. The presence of 02906 zip codes within the City of Providence category indicates that the hypothesis is false.

Experimental method II: Check listings within the (fictitious) city of East Side of Providence on RIliving.com website and observe whether all of the listings have 02906 zip codes or if any have other "non-East Side of Providence" zip codes. Select the Property search tab, and select single, multi, and condo type properties. Identify any listings which do not have 02906 zip code, by clicking on Property Search and add the ficititious city of "East Side of Providence" to the search query. Filter results for zip codes which should not be in the category by entering 02903. Repeat as necessary for other "non-East Side of Providence" zip codes.

Data and Analysis: Within the ficititious city of East Side of Providence, there are presently five properties entered into the listings which are reported by the site to have 02903 zip codes. There are two listings with Benefit Street addresses which are in the 02903 zip code categorized into East Side of Providence. Each of these properties fall within the so-called East Side but do not share the 02906 zip code. In addition, there is one listing with an "02903" Butler Ave. address which comes up as well, though the Realtor's data error did not affect the listing "city". There are two South Main Street listings as well, with 02903 zip codes. The presence of 02903 zip codes within the East Side of Providence category indicates the hypothesis is false. There was no need to repeat the procedure any further.

Conclusion: the hypothesis that RILiving.com's East Side of Providence category simply reports 02906 listsings is false.

There must be some other reason.

Originally Posted by tk421991

Edit: Your opinion that they "segregate" out minorities from the eastern side of Providence is incorrect. I've met plenty of black people in the East Side who weren't college students, etc.

Now now, let's not be so literal. The real estate profession is able to make rules, not laws. And so far the best "three" rules they've come up with are location, location, location.

[Hollytree]

I doubt it has to do with zip codes. I think the east side was separated out for purposes of the MLS because it is the most expensive area of the city and if statistically mixed in, it would give a very misleading view of house prices.

I think the RILiving site needs some revisions- one I particularly dislike is square footage added above and below grade. For example, a 1700 sq ft house, when actually examined, might have only 1200 that's not in the basement.

As to the OP, you do have a small condo budget. I see 13 condos listed under 210,000 on the east side, only one or two being in Fox Point- but many in better locations. Some have less than 500 sq ft. however. Still... a lot better than Boston!

[boulevardofdef]

On my first visit to Rhode Island (as an adult) six years ago, my wife and I were in Newport and went into Trinity Church to explore. Picture us: a well-dressed, well-groomed youngish white couple with a 9-month-old baby in an expensive stroller. There was an older lady working in there, I guess you'd call her a docent, very elegant, excellent posture, string of pearls and all that, refined accent probably resulting from years of finishing school. We mentioned to her that we were thinking about moving to Rhode Island. "Where are you looking?" she asked. "Providence," we said. "Oh, yes, yes, Providence is very nice," she said. "Just stay on the East Side."

You can call it "Jim Crow" or whatever you want, but that's why the East Side is listed separately in the MLS.

And now, for the OP: Something you may want to consider is that Fox Point is a young neighborhood, I'd venture to say the youngest on the East Side, or even the youngest in Providence -- even College Hill, with its many students, probably has an older-skewing permanent population. Presumably you're middle aged or older. Now, many older people aren't bothered by living in a younger area -- my in-laws, for example, live in a college town and love the youthful energy. But others don't agree, so you should be aware of that.

[Snowball7]

Fox Point has 3-level houses and was a Portuguese neighborhood.
College Hill is an old Anglo neighborhood closer to Brown.

I know both neighborhoods very well having worked landscaping on their
lawns for years and had friends whose houses i went to in Fox Point,
and some parties on College Hill also...

I really don't know if the historic origins are relevant anymore, in 2016,
but there were lots of Portuguese renting and living in Fox Point.

You shouldn't bother trying to decide unless you come here and look around,
because you really have no idea what to think ! (no offense)
There is a lot of variety here in tiny distances that people from out of state
would never imagine.

[Hollytree]

Originally Posted by boulevardofdef

On my first visit to Rhode Island (as an adult) six years ago, my wife and I were in Newport and went into Trinity Church to explore. Picture us: a well-dressed, well-groomed youngish white couple with a 9-month-old baby in an expensive stroller. There was an older lady working in there, I guess you'd call her a docent, very elegant, excellent posture, string of pearls and all that, refined accent probably resulting from years of finishing school. We mentioned to her that we were thinking about moving to Rhode Island. "Where are you looking?" she asked. "Providence," we said. "Oh, yes, yes, Providence is very nice," she said. "Just stay on the East Side."

You can call it "Jim Crow" or whatever you want, but that's why the East Side is listed separately in the MLS.

I would call it the most desirable part of Providence for a number of reasons; proximity, historic style, walkability, charm, close to colleges and libraries, museums, restaurants, etc.

The median house price on the East Side is in the 400s, median in the rest of Providence, low 200s. If Providence is averaged all together (including some of the East Side properties that go in the millions), one might think you could buy a fabulous house anywhere in Providence for 300 or thereabouts. You can, but you may or may not not want to live in the neighborhood. This is true of any city. That really is the reason why it is looked at separately.

Back to the OP, Federal Hill might be a place to look for a condo that is walkable to shops and restaurants as well as to downtown. Downtown condos would be out of your price range.

[ormari]

Originally Posted by Hollytree

I think the east side was separated out for purposes of the MLS because it is the most expensive area of the city and if statistically mixed in, it would give a very misleading view of house prices.

I truly do not think it is that simple and innocent, though that may be among the reasons it was done. I disagree that mixing in the most expensive area of the city with the rest of the city would present a misleading view of Providence house prices. Quite the opposite, in fact: segregating out the wealthy enclaves skews the mean, median, and mode from where they properly belong for the city as a whole and as a result presents a misleading picture. Want a market snapshot of the wealthy section? Data subsets can be extracted at will, at least by zip code, and could be done by neighborhood as well if you could just convince realtors to put together honest and accurate listings. If the RI real estate association hasn't gotten it together any better than that, then shame on them.

I'm not a real estate professional and haven't studied the issue, but I do not know of any major cities where one particular neighborhood is excluded from the bulk of the city to massage the data under the guise of presenting a clearer view of the market. Do you?

Originally Posted by boulevardofdef

On my first visit to Rhode Island (as an adult) six years ago, my wife and I were in Newport and went into Trinity Church to explore. Picture us: a well-dressed, well-groomed youngish white couple with a 9-month-old baby in an expensive stroller. There was an older lady working in there, I guess you'd call her a docent, very elegant, excellent posture, string of pearls and all that, refined accent probably resulting from years of finishing school. We mentioned to her that we were thinking about moving to Rhode Island. "Where are you looking?" she asked. "Providence," we said. "Oh, yes, yes, Providence is very nice," she said. "Just stay on the East Side."

You can call it "Jim Crow" or whatever you want, but that's why the East Side is listed separately in the MLS.

It's a familiar story shared by many.

Originally Posted by boulevardofdef

And now, for the OP: Something you may want to consider is that Fox Point is a young neighborhood, I'd venture to say the youngest on the East Side, or even the youngest in Providence -- even College Hill, with its many students, probably has an older-skewing permanent population. Presumably you're middle aged or older. Now, many older people aren't bothered by living in a younger area -- my in-laws, for example, live in a college town and love the youthful energy. But others don't agree, so you should be aware of that.

The OP doesn't specify how they want to measure low crime and this is a bit of a subjective topic. But if the OP doesn't find what they are looking for in Fox Point or College Hill--both potentially good fits as long as one is careful not to end up in a student ghetto in Fox Point--they may wish to explore Federal Hill/West Side. Believe it or not, they would join an admittedly small group of peers in a similar (presumed) age group who've also moved into the area, and the area has plenty of amenities.

[Hollytree]

[quote=ormari;46041744]I truly do not think it is that simple and innocent, though that may be among the reasons it was done. I disagree that mixing in the most expensive area of the city with the rest of the city would present a misleading view of Providence house prices. Quite the opposite, in fact: segregating out the wealthy enclaves skews the mean, median, and mode from where they properly belong for the city as a whole and as a result presents a misleading picture. Want a market snapshot of the wealthy section? Data subsets can be extracted at will, at least by zip code, and could be done by neighborhood as well if you could just convince realtors to put together honest and accurate listings. If the RI real estate association hasn't gotten it together any better than that, then shame on them. [quote]


No value judgements on my end. I'm saying that is the reason I have heard why they decided to do it. Obviously, it also makes it easier if all you're looking at is the East Side. I doubt that a great deal of thought went into it.

......Good luck with the accurate and honest bit.