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Following up from an earlier post I made when considering moving to Providence; I have actually made the move and have been living in temporary housing downtown for the last 2.5 months.
I have some observations that I would like to get some feedback on, partly for validation (or not) and discussion and partly to help decide what I would like to do next because I presently don't see myself staying in the Providence area longer term.
These are my observations.
1) I moved here to be closer to the ocean and spend more time outdoors, both goals well met by being here. RI has some of the most scenic places in New England, hands down.
2) I chose downtown PVD to have an active social life, meet others and make friends. There are numerous opportunities to attend events, festivals and a long list of activities to choose from but it hasn't been easy to make friends. Perhaps not a function of RI specifically as moving anywhere new can present that challenge but overall, I perceive Rhody’s as somewhat guarded.
3) The road system is challenging. In particular, the off-on ramps create tremendous confusion and the traffic signals seemingly turn red as soon as you approach them. Yes, they do, they turn red when you are about 25 yards away. I have stopped at every single traffic light on E. Franklin St hundreds of times, one block after the other turning red as soon as I get going 30MPH, very frustrating!
Putting your blinker on to change lanes on Rt. 95 is tantamount to telling the adjacent lanes driver to hit the gas and close the lane-gap before you have a chance to make the shift. Most drivers are very aggressive keeping a tight gap on the car in front of them and they love to floor the gas pedal as soon as a departing car creates an open space and then slam brakes and change lanes. The highway can be a white-knuckled maze of lane drops and shifts and additions.
4) Demographically, where do I start? Hard to get a handle on what this is all about here in Providence and surrounding areas. The city and surrounding metro is a social melting pot for all kinds; the homeless, criminals, students, retirees, alternate-lifestyles and life-long natives – a petri dish of diversity with seemingly no boundaries or borders. In some ways it is invigorating and stimulating and in other ways overwhelming as you just never know what to expect.
I have driven through one neighborhood block and thought this is a nice area and I could settle here and on the very next block (the one literally across the intersection) looked around and thought, no way would I live here. The sudden and dramatic shift in neighborhoods makes it hard to get a read on and understanding of exactly what type of neighborhood you are in and the close proximity of completely different neighborhoods is somewhat unsettling.
For example, I ate in Pawtuxet Village, nice area that seems decent, and then drove one or two miles up the road and stopped at a McDonalds and was denied using their locked bathroom. I went to a Thai restaurant about a mile from where I live off Broad St that got very good reviews. As I approached the fence-laced building and looked around the area, I thought I was in the ‘hood. The food was fine and the service nice and the restaurant packed, but I would be very cautious about walking out that door after dark.
5) I have also driven around much of the PVD area; Cranston, Pawtucket and East Providence. I applaud the cities attention to and provision of outdoor spaces and there is a general sense of common civility in my dealings that is also attractive. But, so many of the neighborhoods look unkempt and rundown; neighborhoods located next to abandoned buildings or poorly designed neighborhoods with tenement house after tenement house with narrow roads and parking on both sides of the street. It reminds me of a large-scale Worcester that seemed to build itself out with no regard for planning. Yes, there are some nice areas but many more areas that look in poor condition, and as I mentioned earlier, even the nicer kept places abut areas that look poverty-ridden. It has left me wondering what to make of it all.
6) From my original post, many respondents mentioned that the east-side of PVD is a good place to be. The educated and economically advantaged seem to thrive here, and while I fit into that classification in many regards and it is a well-kept neighborhood; it also seems like this area is mostly a bastion for gay and intellectual liberalism that is seemingly cultured and fostered primarily by Brown U.
Yes, there is easy access to dining, shopping and a general laid back feel in Wayland Square, which is nice, but each time I have visited I got a sense of indifference and snobbery. I want to like this area but I don’t get a good vibe here. Ironically, and probably attractive to east-siders, it appears that there is a lack of criminal, homeless, panhandler and other degenerate elements in the east-side that are present in the rest of the PVD area; which seems ironic given that most of those residing here would seemingly defend those people as having a right to be there but simultaneously don’t seem to actually want them within their sight; much like the all-white yuppie suburban neighborhood that is covered with Black Lives Matter yard-signs. This is the only area that I know of close to Providence that seems to have a semblance of refinement.
All that said, there are many good things to say about Providence; dining, night life, theater, art, colleges, events, outdoor spaces . . . But somehow the individual parts don’t sum to a greater whole. Personally, I have a sense of dissonance about Providence and abutting cities/towns. In my conversations with others about the PVD area I am left with an overall sense that there is a disenfranchised resignation to accept what is because many believe it is too backwards to be any different. Similarly, I see great potential for it to be much more than what it presently is but my overall sentiment about living here is disappointed in that I can’t see where a middle-aged, straight, professional white guy would fit in. Perhaps I missed something in my travels?
So, I have scouted around the East Greenwich and West Warwick areas. Overall, it seems to be more suburban and less socially and economically fragmented and even though it is farther from the capital city, it still seems to have many of the amenities and activities that make PVD an attractive thought, but I really do not know.
So, perhaps you agree or disagree with my commentary and thoughts about Providence?
I am also wondering, is East Greenwich and/or Warwick a version of PVD-lite or is this part of Rhode Island different? Are there other places on the west-side of the bay from Providence and south worth checking out?
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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So, I moved from Boston 16 most ago, and take this as you will:
#2 I find the people here much less guarded then where I moved from. It's been far easier to meet people, make friends, and get dates socially out and about than Boston area.
#3 I don't find the road system confusing at all, but the drivers are indeed bonkers.
#4 I love the mixing pot aspect, different demographics and age groups and classes all meld together at the same events. One of the best things about the areas. It's a city, and a very small city at that, so yeah, one block will be great, the next block will be pretty bad. Lots of cities are like that. It was like that in Chicago (though it took a few blocks there), and even Madison, SF, and Boston (other places I've lived).
#5 This is not an affluent city. There is a reason it's so damn cheap. Yes, much is run down, because it is run down... the people who live and work here are paid very little, and there is some hard grudges against people like me coming from more affluent areas that jack the prices of real estate and gentrify them out. This is not a well off city, again, which is why it is affordable.
#6 This where I live, and definitely not a gay bastion (may a few places around Wickendon), but intellectualism? Sure. It's freaking great. Hard to complain about liberalism or intellectualism. But, it is sedate for the most part, so I generally go out elsewhere. I'm a middle age straight professional white guy, but again, PVD is so small it takes 10 min to get anywhere. I would have considered West Side too, but couldn't find anything in my price range I liked. The Armory district prices were too high for what I could get/afford.
Sincere thanks for the great feedback. As a conservative middle aged white fellow, you will probably find suburban life more to your liking and less economically & socially diverse. Probably East Greenwich & Warwick will be more to your liking given your views of Providence/East Side and your perspective on who lives there. Both are likely the most conservative coastal towns in RI. Other coastal towns in RI can be very liberal. Some even more so than the East Side of Providence. Also, East Greenwich & Warwick put you within a short drive to be able to enjoy what you like in Providence and then leave.
Sincere thanks for the great feedback. As a conservative middle aged white fellow, you will probably find suburban life more to your liking and less economically & socially diverse. Probably East Greenwich & Warwick will be more to your liking given your views of Providence/East Side and your perspective on who lives there. Both are likely the most conservative coastal towns in RI. Other coastal towns in RI can be very liberal. Some even more so than the East Side of Providence. Also, East Greenwich & Warwick put you within a short drive to be able to enjoy what you like in Providence and then leave.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
Fully agree.
Completely inaccurate. The OP is living downtown. He probably would have been better off if he took the advice that was given in that thread.
The reality is the OP doesn't seem to like anything. He doesn't like the East Side, doesn't like downtown, and doesn't like the West Side. He doesn't like how the different groups mix, it seems (which is a real strength of the city). In other words, he doesn't like the city. That's on him.
The reality is he literally complained about the city changing in 1-2 MILES!
MILES.
MILES in a city, heck, a couple of blocks in a city, completely changes the landscape. Everyone experienced with city living understands this. Saying, hey, this block is great, two blocks that way is someplace you don't want to go, is normal and expected in a city. Especially a city that is not well off financially. Two blocks away from crime is what most nice places are in most cities that aren't super wealthy (heck, even in rich cities, see parts of the South End in Boston). Welcome to the real world. If you want to be further than a couple of blocks from a run down area and if he wants a nice manicured city, where there aren't, what, gays and intellectual influences? Well, good luck. Not finding that in New England, or certainly not without a hefty price tag.
And some of the other stuff is just, well, made up. Snobbery and indifference, complaining that there aren't many homeless in Wayland Square just so what, he could bash the people living near there? There are pandhandlers there, not as many as downtown, of course not, but they're there. What does he want, people do go out and recruit them to the area? That's just a made up diatribe to try to denigrate the residents of the area for some silly reason, presumably because he doesn't care for the intellectualism of the area, which again, is one of its prime benefits.
Last of all, 3 mos is not near enough to get used to a new city. A year minimum is needed.
Last edited by timberline742; 07-18-2018 at 07:41 AM..
Some thoughts from a former Rhode Islander (now Bostonian)
1) Agreed. It's great.
2) this is a New England problem, and frankly, it gets worse the further north you go. I know timberline feels a bit differently, but I think Boston/Cambridge has enough of an infusion of non-locals to be a bit easier than Providence, but overall, New England is well known for being guarded/reserved. Not sure how long you were in Westborough, but in my experience, it's the same there (if not worse).
3) Yeah it sucks. This is one thing that will still suck, but sucks less over time. My experience is that cities in New England have shorter light cycles (so you won't sit for as long as you would in, say, Florida), but it does mean you hit a lot of reds. Which is better? You'll have to talk to a traffic planner.
4)Yeah. It's true. Is it worse than 90/495 near Westborough? We have an office in Westborough and and I HATE driving there. I think familiarity with the local roads helps a lot on this front, but they'll never not be tough. It does get worse elsewhere though (DC, Chicago, New York, Miami, LA, etc.).
4) I think this would be true of just about any move to a city from Westborough. It's more diverse. You get more of everything in a more concentrated space.
Quote:
I have driven through one neighborhood block and thought this is a nice area and I could settle here and on the very next block (the one literally across the intersection) looked around and thought, no way would I live here. The sudden and dramatic shift in neighborhoods makes it hard to get a read on and understanding of exactly what type of neighborhood you are in and the close proximity of completely different neighborhoods is somewhat unsettling.
I think this is true of almost any dense, urban city that hasn't gentrified beyond recognition like NYC, much of Boston, San Francisco, etc. Providence is earlier on in its transition/gentrification and what you're seeing is indicative progress, not regress. That "nice" block may not have been so nice even a few years ago. I actually still see some of this here in Somerville where there are a few "straggler" neighborhoods that are still starting to turn.
Quote:
For example, I ate in Pawtuxet Village, nice area that seems decent, and then drove one or two miles up the road and stopped at a McDonalds and was denied using their locked bathroom. I went to a Thai restaurant about a mile from where I live off Broad St that got very good reviews. As I approached the fence-laced building and looked around the area, I thought I was in the ‘hood. The food was fine and the service nice and the restaurant packed, but I would be very cautious about walking out that door after dark.
Again, that's a shift from suburbs to city for you. It's going to be the same in every city. The main shopping drag in Boston's most high-end shopping street (Newbury) in Boston's most exclusive neighborhood (Back Bay) is literally one mile from the section of town they call "methadone mile" where even a Cumberland Farms left because of how bad it is. In a dense urban city, a mile or two is not the same as what it is in the suburbs or country - it can mean a night and day difference and is not indicative of any issue with the city itself.
5) Again, welcome to New England cities. They're full of old housing stock. They aren't always spruced up and pretty. This is going to be the way it is in any of them.
Quote:
I am also wondering, is East Greenwich and/or Warwick a version of PVD-lite or is this part of Rhode Island different? Are there other places on the west-side of the bay from Providence and south worth checking out?
Honestly, I don't know that you'll find what you're looking for in New England. Particularly when it comes to the guarded nature of the locals. I know uprooting and heading out west probably isn't an option, but going to a place like the Bay Area, PDX, or Seattle might work better for you. A higher percentage of the people aren't "from" there (at least not 5 generations of family/friends) and are much more warm/open to outsiders. The housing stock is generally newer and less "run down" looking, and aside from San Francisco itself, these cities are a bit more spread out than our dense little Notheastern cities. If you HAVE to stay local, I'd consider maybe a place like Waltham? It's clean, safe, active, not too far from the ocean, and has enough going on as well as slightly less deeply rooted population.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
Honestly, I don't know that you'll find what you're looking for in New England. Particularly when it comes to the guarded nature of the locals. I know uprooting and heading out west probably isn't an option, but going to a place like the Bay Area, PDX, or Seattle might work better for you. A higher percentage of the people aren't "from" there (at least not 5 generations of family/friends) and are much more warm/open to outsiders. .
The OP apparently has issues with culture heavily influenced by liberalism, gays, and intellectualism. Those areas won't be any better. Perhaps worse.
Quite frankly, if they wanted to avoid those things, I have no clue why they would have even looked at Providence, or any other New England city.
I found SF when I lived there much less friendly to outsiders than Providence. Now, if you want friendly to outsiders, upper midwest is where it is at, but you'll have the liberalism (etc) heavy influence as well in those urban areas.
I don't find your observations far off the mark at all.
One thing I like about RI is that there is so much diversity (and I don't mean this in terms of the word's current usage) in such a small geographical area- it's something for everybody and especially for someone who likes old and not a lot of change. A couple decades ago, I used to drive around and fantasize filming a movie right out of the early part of the 20th century- the neighborhoods were so evocative and so essentially static and unchanging. Things have gotten a bit different now however.
The east bay is a world away from the west bay- you don't mention you've even been there besides EP? Just like Newport is a world away from Woonsocket.
Someone who mentions the East Greenwich and the West Warwick areas in the same breathe- not trying to be critical- but it really shows that you're "not from around these parts" and have a whole lot to learn and study up on. So many different vibes!
Keep visiting and observing- eventually you may find your niche. However, people who move here "because it's cheaper than Boston" will probably be ultimately disappointed. You have to like and want to be here and not any other state. Warehousing commuters downtown will be just that.
Good luck to you!
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