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Old 03-02-2016, 12:41 AM
 
Location: VB
553 posts, read 616,092 times
Reputation: 397

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTinPhilly View Post
In terms of land area, it looks like Richmond will remain at 60-square-miles forever. As I recall, annexation attempts over the years by Richmond against Henrico and Chesterfield Counties resulted in a great deal of hostility towards the city by those two counties. Both refused to cooperate with the city of Richmond on providing regional facilities/services for fear that such cooperation would be used against them in future Annexation Court proceedings by the city.
I believe that both Chesterfield and Henrico are immune from annexation, having petitioned for such status at some point between 1979-1987. So Richmond is locked in at its current size regardless of what happens with the statewide moratorium.

Quote:
Now that the threat of annexation is over, have the City of Richmond, and Henrico/Chesterfield Counties joined together in any type of regional cooperation in providing facilities/services such as parks, schools, public utilities, the airport, libraries, fire, police, etc. or is each jurisdiction still duplicating these services on its own? Looking at consolidated governments such as Jacksonville/Duval, Nashville/Davidson, and Louisville/Jefferson I'm wondering if a similar consolidation of Richmond with its surrounding counties could ever take place with resulting cost benefits for all concerned.
Well, the RMA (now RMTA) is still a thing, though they don't do much beyond running a few toll roads, Main St. Station, and The Diamond.

The airport (RIC) is run by a commission that includes representatives from Richmond, Henrico, Hanover, and Chesterfield.

GRTC (bus authority) is owned 50%/50% between Richmond and Chesterfield.

I don't see any of the rest happening anytime soon. Regionalism is fairly weak here; it tends to occur only when absolutely necessary. Otherwise, each jurisdiction does its own thing (it's hardly any different in Southside Hampton Roads, where I live now, where it's a bunch of cities running the show).
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Old 03-02-2016, 06:36 AM
Status: "Let this year be over..." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,080,738 times
Reputation: 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTinPhilly View Post
In terms of land area, it looks like Richmond will remain at 60-square-miles forever. As I recall, annexation attempts over the years by Richmond against Henrico and Chesterfield Counties resulted in a great deal of hostility towards the city by those two counties. Both refused to cooperate with the city of Richmond on providing regional facilities/services for fear that such cooperation would be used against them in future Annexation Court proceedings by the city.


Now that the threat of annexation is over, have the City of Richmond, and Henrico/Chesterfield Counties joined together in any type of regional cooperation in providing facilities/services such as parks, schools, public utilities, the airport, libraries, fire, police, etc. or is each jurisdiction still duplicating these services on its own? Looking at consolidated governments such as Jacksonville/Duval, Nashville/Davidson, and Louisville/Jefferson I'm wondering if a similar consolidation of Richmond with its surrounding counties could ever take place with resulting cost benefits for all concerned.
I would say there are some projects that they work together but overall the city does not play well with others. In most cases the cities approach is they are in charge, the counties will pay and they will reap the benefit so no one wants to come on board. Richmond continues to be mired with in political in fighting and corruption, one good example is the ball park for the last 4+ years you have city counsel and most residents trying to get a new park as promised on the existing site and the mayor and his team trying to put it anywhere but and then blaming the team for not finding a solution. All that's happened is money is wasted, the squirrels may choose to leave and the same old ball park is still being used.

One of your examples Jacksonville/Duvall would be better compared to the Hampton Roads cities which are also city counties. Will the region merge I highly doubt it, one significant change in the area as in many areas is the city is not the center anymore. Business, shopping, living are spread out with more businesses based in the counties then in the city centers the days of going downtown to shop or work are over. This is not unique to Richmond many areas have changed in the same manner over time.
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Old 03-03-2016, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC via Richmond VA
132 posts, read 253,746 times
Reputation: 169
I think that the separate city county structure in Virginia has stunted the growth of its cities. It puts the individual municipalities in competition for resources. It leaves the cities landlocked and with a less affluent population and tax base. The Richmond region would benifit as a whole with a stronger Richmond as an anchor. But instead the region would rather disown its anchor and continue with business as usual.

And could someone tell Henrico to put some lights on Broad Street? I mean come on its Broad Street!
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Old 03-04-2016, 05:55 AM
Status: "Let this year be over..." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,080,738 times
Reputation: 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRAMAL View Post
I think that the separate city county structure in Virginia has stunted the growth of its cities. It puts the individual municipalities in competition for resources. It leaves the cities landlocked and with a less affluent population and tax base. The Richmond region would benifit as a whole with a stronger Richmond as an anchor. But instead the region would rather disown its anchor and continue with business as usual.

And could someone tell Henrico to put some lights on Broad Street? I mean come on its Broad Street!
How does the structure here stunt growth anymore than other locations where you go from one incorporated community (city/town) to another? The city has an affluent population what they don't have is a strong middle class and that is largely due to the schools, the rich send there kids to private school the poor have no choice and the middle class leave for better schools.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
830 posts, read 1,017,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
How does the structure here stunt growth anymore than other locations where you go from one incorporated community (city/town) to another? The city has an affluent population what they don't have is a strong middle class and that is largely due to the schools, the rich send there kids to private school the poor have no choice and the middle class leave for better schools.
It not so much stunts growth as it places an unfair burden on cities in the Commonwealth. For example, in Richmond, many of the cultural institutions, regional infrastructure (water works), major venues, etc. are located in the city limits but are used by the entire region yet the costs are borne only by the city. There are agreements for funding contributions, etc. but they are paltry in many instances, i.e. GRTC. Richmond provides the majority, if not all the funding for these things. There are also certain regulations that cities are made to comply with (someone mentioned urban lighting) that counties do not. One of the major purposes of annexation is to bring back in tax revenue from a city's neighboring communities that are taking advantage of city resources rent-free.

In Virginia, not only don't you have annexation but with "independent cities" you can't even have streamlined revenue sharing between counties and cities as you would elsewhere. For all intents, towns in Virginia are what cities are in other states - incorporated into their surrounding county. The city gets the benefit of county resources but can still provide that extra layer of city-focused infrastructure and amenities in a kind of of automatic regionalism. In Virginia, cities are on their own no matter how much they support their entire region. /rant
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
1,799 posts, read 6,315,194 times
Reputation: 673
As growth in the city continues to outpace the counties and gentrification increases, the region's concentrations of poverty are shifting from being located predominately within the city limits to older suburbs within the counties. Whether or not we decide to look at regional issues through a regional lens or change the independent city rule in Virginia, the counties are being forced to share in the burdens of poverty and all the challenges that come with it.

This article from 10 years ago rings true today:

Quote:
The phenomenon is nothing new. The perpetual spreading out of suburban counties has been taking place since the 1940s, when people first began to leave inner-city apartments for trolley-linked row houses and streetcar suburbs.

But the problems with suburban flight used to be contained within city borders. Only in the last few years have county officials awakened to the realities of their own areas' suburban decline and the challenges that come with it.

"I'm worried about many of our older, kind of modest neighborhoods built in the '60s and '70s. We've got to work to prevent blight and insidious decline in these areas," says Tom Jacobson, Chesterfield County's director of community revitalization.

"I agree that the challenge of these areas in the future may be more than the challenge in city neighborhoods," he says. "The houses are not cute, in many respects. The neighborhood infrastructure is basic: no sidewalks, no curb and gutter, no neighborhood parks, not close to a lot of services that you have in city neighborhoods."
Rethinking Suburbia | Cover Story | Style Weekly - Richmond, VA local news, arts, and events.
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Old 03-04-2016, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Virginia (again)
2,697 posts, read 8,694,962 times
Reputation: 1565
Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondpics View Post
As growth in the city continues to outpace the counties and gentrification increases, the region's concentrations of poverty are shifting from being located predominately within the city limits to older suburbs within the counties. Whether or not we decide to look at regional issues through a regional lens or change the independent city rule in Virginia, the counties are being forced to share in the burdens of poverty and all the challenges that come with it.

This article from 10 years ago rings true today:



Rethinking Suburbia | Cover Story | Style Weekly - Richmond, VA local news, arts, and events.
Census 2014 shows the average annual growth rate from 2004-2014 in the city was 1.0% compared with 1.4% in Henrico and 1.6% in Chesterfield. Poverty rate in the city is about 4x as high as Chesterfield's and 2.5x as high as Henrico's. Perhaphs there's been a slight shift. I don't have historical data to compare those figures to.
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Old 03-04-2016, 05:36 PM
Status: "Let this year be over..." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,080,738 times
Reputation: 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquest1 View Post
It not so much stunts growth as it places an unfair burden on cities in the Commonwealth. For example, in Richmond, many of the cultural institutions, regional infrastructure (water works), major venues, etc. are located in the city limits but are used by the entire region yet the costs are borne only by the city. There are agreements for funding contributions, etc. but they are paltry in many instances, i.e. GRTC. Richmond provides the majority, if not all the funding for these things. There are also certain regulations that cities are made to comply with (someone mentioned urban lighting) that counties do not. One of the major purposes of annexation is to bring back in tax revenue from a city's neighboring communities that are taking advantage of city resources rent-free.

In Virginia, not only don't you have annexation but with "independent cities" you can't even have streamlined revenue sharing between counties and cities as you would elsewhere. For all intents, towns in Virginia are what cities are in other states - incorporated into their surrounding county. The city gets the benefit of county resources but can still provide that extra layer of city-focused infrastructure and amenities in a kind of of automatic regionalism. In Virginia, cities are on their own no matter how much they support their entire region. /rant
You raise some valid points but let me ask, you feel the city shoulders a burden over the counties. Cultural institutes such as VMFA are state agencies not city ones so who is receiving the money to operate it, the city. Your example of water works, Henrico has their own one but is still bound to use the city source for so much of the service, would the city like to just pass on the responsibility and let the county run it? The city also supplies natural gas but per my county leader we are stuck with them for another 20 years or we would switch over.

GRTC is interesting, Chesterfield owns half of it Henrico none, from what I see it like many city agencies it is poorly run and does not provide the service it was created for. Some specifics:
- The desired multi-million dollar transfer station downtown in the middle of parking lots by an empty train station.
- When Amazon was looking for workers and running multiple shifts a day not 1 GRTC bus was running down there. They could have had express run for workers from the city.
- The new DASH bus doesn’t go near the concentrated residential areas that could benefit.
- No run to Short Pump even though posters always express a desire for one, if so popular why not implement it?

I can elaborate on the problems with city leadership and services but I won’t for now. Let’s say there are significant problems that the residents pay for in money, time and lack of services. Street lighting on Broad seems fine so I am unsure what the other poster was referring to.

Richmond’s last annexation was to get white residents back in the city limits after excessive white flight in the 60’s they say 75% moved again to the county after the city took over. The city needs to manage and market what they have and not look to grab someone else’s business, where do you see the counties “taking advantage of city resources rent-free.”? If you look at Northern NJ as an example city/town limits are all touching so no city can annex their neighbor they are bound to their legal limits. As for “streamlined revenue sharing between counties and cities” Richmond does not play well with others. Henrico was losing several million a year in tax revenue that was being paid to the city by mistake by the companies. The city always claimed that they were transferring the money back, after Henrico zips had their name changed (and Chesterfield also) the county was several million richer and the city budget fell short by several million…what do you know.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
1,799 posts, read 6,315,194 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by sls76 View Post
Census 2014 shows the average annual growth rate from 2004-2014 in the city was 1.0% compared with 1.4% in Henrico and 1.6% in Chesterfield. Poverty rate in the city is about 4x as high as Chesterfield's and 2.5x as high as Henrico's. Perhaphs there's been a slight shift. I don't have historical data to compare those figures to.
That's a tiny bit misleading don't you think? We all know that the city was still hemorrhaging population until the late 2000s but today is making substantial gains. Data from Weldon Cooper estimated the annual growth rate today to be much higher than you suggest. On a percentage basis poverty is higher in the city but there are more people today that live in poverty in the counties than the city. That was the case back in 2007 in the article I cited.

Anyways, I guess my point was that a more regional approach to regional issues would make the region stronger. Too bad so few share the sentiment.
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Old 03-05-2016, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA, from Boston
1,514 posts, read 2,775,736 times
Reputation: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by sls76 View Post
Census 2014 shows the average annual growth rate from 2004-2014 in the city was 1.0% compared with 1.4% in Henrico and 1.6% in Chesterfield. Poverty rate in the city is about 4x as high as Chesterfield's and 2.5x as high as Henrico's. Perhaphs there's been a slight shift. I don't have historical data to compare those figures to.
An aside - what matters is the city has hit an inflection point, and has actually become a desirable place to live. That growth is generally upper middle class and white, as poor blacks are being forced out of the city economically. Classic gentrification, basically. Which is clearly good for the city economically, but has some implications on those various numbers going forward.

I have seen numbers that show Richmond is majority white again, though they may be iffy. Sadly this is a meaningful data point about what is happening, though hopefully one day it won't be.
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