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Yeah I see your point. I just don't think in most cases a ferry that takes people from one place to another is a great idea. Especially when most people will want their car on the other side. It's probably easier to go without a car in Burlington than Rochester or Toronto. Obviously there are many things you can get to in Toronto via transit, but there are many others that you cannot. The cruises are the way to go because no one will want to go to Rochester on its own, but they might as part of a package deal with other cities. There is also no reason great lakes cities can't develop their waterfronts and make this work.
As far as the villages go I think it will work in some cases. Pittsford will likely succeed due to its affluence and great school system. Webster to me is more of a maybe. It won't disrupt traffic, but I'm also not sure that someone who wants that kind of lifestyle will live all the way out in Webster...maybe I'm wrong. Irondequoit to me is doomed. They have a grid pattern much like the city, but the town is shrinking, the mall situation and the performing arts center appear to have blown up and East Irondequoit's schools are terrible. I'm not sure I buy into the town center idea for them. Penfield is a good example of a town that can't even try something like this because if they were to slow down traffic through their village it would prevent suburban residents on the other side of the village from being able to drive down 441 and 5 mile line road at 50 mph.
The trick with amenities is you need population density. For retail to really take off you want your wealthy areas to be population dense and for other reasons (mostly crime) you want your poorer areas to have population more spread out. Up until now Park Avenue has been the densest, most affluent neighborhood, but because it is in a preservation district and there is no land to build additional apartment buildings the population has been flat for years. The commercial spaces on Park Ave are also extremely small. It's for this reason that Park Avenue is mostly made up of Restaurants and Salons frequented by motorists and not Retail supported by local residents.
The big game changer is downtown, but we'll just have to see how the Sibley Building and Midtown Tower projects end up. If they fill up both buildings, put a new performing arts center downtown, a 10 screen multiplex, waterpark, windstream (already there), new D&C building, and high end retail there will be few people left saying Rochester is a dying city, but these are massive projects and hardly a slam dunk.
Just to clear something up, the ferry between Burlington and Plattsburgh allows for people to bring their cars. With that said, you would customs to deal with if this were the case with a Toronto/Rochester ferry. A cruise could be a good possibility.
When somebody argues a point or expresses an opinion it's typical to provide examples or evidence to support their argument, but that's just how intelligent people discuss things.
When somebody argues a point or expresses an opinion it's typical to provide examples or evidence to support their argument, but that's just how intelligent people discuss things.
If I told you the sky was blue, must I provide examples and evidence?
Though I know this seems to be happening in only major cities but I think Rochester May catch the g bug..(gentrification) which neighborhoods will gentrify first? (Other than Southwedge). My bets are on SW and NW as both seem to be in beginning stages. (Bike lanes on Dewey, And the developments near UofR).
Though I know this seems to be happening in only major cities but I think Rochester May catch the g bug..(gentrification) which neighborhoods will gentrify first? (Other than Southwedge). My bets are on SW and NW as both seem to be in beginning stages. (Bike lanes on Dewey, And the developments near UofR).
The 19th Ward and Plex are well on their way due to proximity to the University. I imagine this will push some people from those neighborhoods into Genesee-Jefferson and clean up that area. The southwest will probably be mostly minority population for the near future, but it will be a working class safe area. The city clearly wants to connect the Brooks landing project with the Corn Hill area.
Downtown and near downtown areas will likely see substantial advances, including High Falls, Susan B. Anthony and Southern Marketview Heights. Beechwood should improve due to proximity to other decent areas surrounding it. Each of these areas has seem some development so far and has signs of being a "next South Wedge".
There will probably be more development on the west side of the river all the way up to Charlotte, but I don't expect the NW to change dramatically. They've been encouraging a lot of refugees to settle in this area, which has stabilized it somewhat, but the area is still overly industrial looking and unpleasant.If anything you will see things flip and the more affluent will be closer to the city/river rather than Gates as it is right now. Gates seems to be falling apart and its school district is in trouble.
The northeast side will probably only get worse. East Irondequoit is on its way to becoming Rochester's first poverty ridden suburb and a ton of residential space in this part of Rochester is either empty lots or vacant. I think most of this area hit a tipping point long ago and will never come back. I'd like to see substantial parts of this area become park space or urban forest.
The big thing is the schools. If the city can come up with some decent charter schools that can compete with the likes of Fairport, Webster, Greece, Gates, etc. its a real game changer. East Irondequoit is long gone, Gates-Chili, Greece, and Rush-Henrietta are struggling, so there will be a lot of population looking for alternatives if they do exist.
The 19th Ward and Plex are well on their way due to proximity to the University. I imagine this will push some people from those neighborhoods into Genesee-Jefferson and clean up that area. The southwest will probably be mostly minority population for the near future, but it will be a working class safe area. The city clearly wants to connect the Brooks landing project with the Corn Hill area.
Downtown and near downtown areas will likely see substantial advances, including High Falls, Susan B. Anthony and Southern Marketview Heights. Beechwood should improve due to proximity to other decent areas surrounding it. Each of these areas has seem some development so far and has signs of being a "next South Wedge".
There will probably be more development on the west side of the river all the way up to Charlotte, but I don't expect the NW to change dramatically. They've been encouraging a lot of refugees to settle in this area, which has stabilized it somewhat, but the area is still overly industrial looking and unpleasant.If anything you will see things flip and the more affluent will be closer to the city/river rather than Gates as it is right now. Gates seems to be falling apart and its school district is in trouble.
The northeast side will probably only get worse. East Irondequoit is on its way to becoming Rochester's first poverty ridden suburb and a ton of residential space in this part of Rochester is either empty lots or vacant. I think most of this area hit a tipping point long ago and will never come back. I'd like to see substantial parts of this area become park space or urban forest.
The big thing is the schools. If the city can come up with some decent charter schools that can compete with the likes of Fairport, Webster, Greece, Gates, etc. its a real game changer. East Irondequoit is long gone, Gates-Chili, Greece, and Rush-Henrietta are struggling, so there will be a lot of population looking for alternatives if they do exist.
Rush-Henrietta is struggling? It actually is a top 80 school district academically in Upstate NY. Check out the the thread I posted in the general section of the forum showing Upstate NY school information from the Buffalo Business Journal. 2013 Upstate New York school district rankings - Buffalo - Business First
Even East Irondequoit with pockets of lower income in the SW portion of the district and its perception, had a grad rate of 92% (87% for Black students and 94% for White students) according to the most recent NYSED Report Card(2011-2012): https://reportcards.nysed.gov/files/...0801060006.pdf (page 12). Its college ready percentage is pretty low and test scores are so-so though.
Rush-Henrietta is struggling? It actually is a top 80 school district academically in Upstate NY. Check out the the thread I posted in the general section of the forum showing Upstate NY school information from the Buffalo Business Journal. 2013 Upstate New York school district rankings - Buffalo - Business First
Even East Irondequoit with pockets of lower income in the SW portion of the district and its perception, had a grad rate of 92% (87% for Black students and 94% for White students) according to the most recent NYSED Report Card(2011-2012): https://reportcards.nysed.gov/files/...0801060006.pdf (page 12). Its college ready percentage is pretty low and test scores are so-so though.
I suppose it all depends on what you think makes a great school. I tend to put the most weight into how school districts perform on standardized tests and like how greatschools.org ranks schools. I don't think the list you linked is doing anything radically different, though i would questions whether or not being ranked 80th i actually a good thing in western new york.
R-H had average regents scores in 2012 of 64% in algebra I, 74% in algebra II, 67% in earth science, 55% in geometry, and living environment 68%. Essentially what this tells me is if you want your kids to be scientists, engineers, and doctors look elsewhere. Now is R-H a terrible school?...like city bad, no of course not, but its not great either.
I get why you're looking at graduation rates, but really in a wealthy industrialized nation the rates should be close to 100% in nearly every district and it isn't an indication of a very good school. So far, the charter schools in the city have not produced radically different test scores than their public school alternatives. The only school that has shown to be competitive is the Genesee Elementary Charter school at the Museum and Science Center. It's students are almost all from middle class families and above in the city limits and it is only slightly more ethnically diverse than most suburban districts.
Rush-Henrietta is struggling? It actually is a top 80 school district academically in Upstate NY. Check out the the thread I posted in the general section of the forum showing Upstate NY school information from the Buffalo Business Journal. 2013 Upstate New York school district rankings - Buffalo - Business First
Even East Irondequoit with pockets of lower income in the SW portion of the district and its perception, had a grad rate of 92% (87% for Black students and 94% for White students) according to the most recent NYSED Report Card(2011-2012): https://reportcards.nysed.gov/files/...0801060006.pdf (page 12). Its college ready percentage is pretty low and test scores are so-so though.
I see it this way. Obviously highly subjective, though based on your own list:
Great Schools
1. Pittsford
4. Brighton
Average Schools
12. Penfield
19. West Irondequoit
20. Victor
27. Fairport
41. Webster
Crappy Schools
77. Rush Henrietta
137. Gates Chili
187. Greece
255. East Rochester
321. East Irondequoit
Failed Schools
429. Rochester
Yes, that is very subjective and the list is for all of "Upstate" NY. Where's Churchville-Chili, Wheatland-Chili, Brockport, Spencerport, Honeoye Falls-Lima and Hilton?
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 02-18-2014 at 09:02 AM..
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