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gfrom...i also lived in the triangle area for almost 13 years before moving back to Rochester so hopefully I can help as well. I have seen that cost of living calculator and the difference in col it computes between Rochester and Raleigh is very marginal and i can assure that at least personally, the cost of living is lower here than it is down there. Really, the only thing cheaper down there is property taxes. Gas is cheaper, but you use much more of it because the area is more sprawled out and there is more traffic. We lived in Noth Raleigh, Cary, South Raleigh, and Apex. We really really didn't like South Raleigh but were pretty fond of Apex. North Raleigh and Cary were nice but a little overrated IMO. The schools in all of those areas (except for south raleigh) will be better than schools in the city of Rochester for sure, but most of Rochester's suburban schools are much better than WCPSS.....it is just too big of a school system and kids get shuffled around too much. We enjoyed our time down there and our oldest two kids pretty much grew up there (ironically they were the ones who were born here while our youngest was born down there, and he will now grow up here) but the area is really changing with all of the growth from transplants from really expensive areas of the US like Long Island, New Jersey, Florida, California etc; and we didn't like where things were going.
I grew up in Rochester and have lived in Raleigh for 16 years.
My rambling thoughts...
It's HOT HOT HOT here in the summer! I really don't like it. Summers are glorious in Rochester by comparison.
I do like that "Indian summer" seems to last forever, through September and October and even into November. It did snow this past winter, but only once. We don't really need to buy boots, gloves, or hats. Most of the time, a regular jacket is fine in the winter.
Most of the houses in this area are new, and many people from CA and NYC come here, after selling their high-priced real estate and pick up a house for half a million that is far better than what they left, so they're thrilled out of their minds to be here.
They think the traffic is fine because their traffic is among the worst in the country.
Traffic in certain areas is bad, IMHO, especially at rush hour, of course. There is nothing to compare it to in Rochester. I keep away from I-40 whenever I can.
You have people from all over the country driving in one place with all their idiosyncracies. Forget turn signals. Expect extreme tailgating. Expect speeding. I once saw a woman reading a Bible while driving on the "Outer Beltline" where the average speed is about 70.
There is much greater diversity here than in Rochester.
There is a certain snobbiness here that I never experienced in Rochester.
There is a post by someone in the Rochester discussion area by someone who grew up in Alabama, and she brilliantly identified all the subtle cultural differences between North and South.
In the Triangle area (Raleigh, Durham, Cary and surrounding towns), it's not easy to find natives. Everyone is from somewhere else. It seems half of New Jersey and NYC have moved here.
Unemployment is bad here. Of course, if you're unemployed, it's MISERABLE. I know many people who are unemployed. Hourly jobs are being grabbed by salaried employees who can't find a job.
If you're employed, it's a non-issue.
No one should move here without a job lined up first. I don't know why anyone is moving here, really. I think the media (especially Forbes) is in love with the area, and I really don't think it merits the extreme attention it's been getting.
NC has the sixth-highest unemployment rate in the country.
The schools are good here. Recently, they've begun a reassignment plan, and kids have been reassigned to different schools repeatedly in the past. They use a county-wide school system, and this is the website: http://www..
There is also the issue of "traditional calendar" and year-round schools. Some people love year-round schools, and some can't handle it. http://www.wcpss.net/
Many people go to the beach for fun. The closest one is 2 hours away (Wrightsville Beach).
If I could design a perfect life, I would live in this area from November to May, and then move to the Finger Lakes area from June to October. Once you've been away, you really appreciate the incredible beauty of the Finger Lakes and wine country.
I live in a 1960's-era neighborhood -- Brentwood -- that is very convenient and has a lot of great neighbors. The house prices are good, and there are a lot of trees and plantings, a park, and active groups, such as a garden cllub, if you want to join in. The neighborhood website is Beautiful Brentwood -- and be sure to see the "Discover Brentwood" slide show to learn more about Brentwood and living in Raleigh.
BTW, I would never live in Durham, but that's just me.
The commute from Apex or Cary to RTP would be fine. Very convenient. Just Mapquest it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfrommjr
Hi, I live in the North Winton area of Rochester right now, and love it. Depending on the house you are looking for we may have one for sale soon! lol. My wife and I are looking to relocate due to work and have offers in RTP Raleigh-Durham and the Tampa Fl area. I recently came back from RTP and thought that it looked really nice. I saw your comments and was wondering if you could be a little more specific in the reasons you did not like it. I know the weather is going to be an issue in both of those places but at least we won't have to shovel! As far as cost, the houses look pretty reasonable, and the overall cost of living as I have seen in the online calculators is cheaper there then in Rochester. Some houses maybe a little more expensive but you pay much less in property taxes. We pay about $3300 a year on a $100k city house. You would pay the same amount on a $200-250k house down there. And if you wanted to go into the suburbs of Rochester for schools, you would be looking at 7-15k a year in taxes. We were looking at the neighborhoods you mentioned, Cary, Apex, and West Durham. Did you have anything specific that you did not like about them? How were the schools there? What would the commute be like from Apex/Cary to RTP? Any input would be appreciated, especially from a fellow Western NY'er!
Hi, I live in the North Winton area of Rochester right now, and love it. Depending on the house you are looking for we may have one for sale soon! lol. My wife and I are looking to relocate due to work and have offers in RTP Raleigh-Durham and the Tampa Fl area. I recently came back from RTP and thought that it looked really nice. I saw your comments and was wondering if you could be a little more specific in the reasons you did not like it. I know the weather is going to be an issue in both of those places but at least we won't have to shovel! As far as cost, the houses look pretty reasonable, and the overall cost of living as I have seen in the online calculators is cheaper there then in Rochester. Some houses maybe a little more expensive but you pay much less in property taxes. We pay about $3300 a year on a $100k city house. You would pay the same amount on a $200-250k house down there. And if you wanted to go into the suburbs of Rochester for schools, you would be looking at 7-15k a year in taxes. We were looking at the neighborhoods you mentioned, Cary, Apex, and West Durham. Did you have anything specific that you did not like about them? How were the schools there? What would the commute be like from Apex/Cary to RTP? Any input would be appreciated, especially from a fellow Western NY'er!
I posted some of this info in another thread. I think that NC as a state is great. It has warm weather, decent tax rates and until recently a growing job market.
Our problem was that during a vacation, we had looked at Charlotte and then went to the Outer Banks in one trip. We drove through Raleigh, but didn't actually look at it. The only thing we noticed was a big traffic jam on the 40 in Raleigh, we laughed at it but did not realize until we moved that it was a daily thing.
What WE look for in a city is everything close by, shops you can walk to, sidewalks, parks, neighbors and still have your recreation and camping within driving distance. My wife and I do not have kids, we have two large dogs at the moment. We thought Raleigh was very spread out, unless you goto a mall or the market, you really can't park your car anywhere and walk around like you can in a large city. The illegal immigrant population was a problem, we had a lot of neighbors who were there illegal and really did not car what they or their kids did. The area did have a few nice lakes nearby, nowhere near what WNY can offer in waterways. What we did like the most about Raleigh was the two hour drive to the beach!
Even though the taxes were cheap we really couldn't afford a decent house in the city, we would have had to get something at least 1/2 hour outside of the city, possibly in Durham. With the commute, we did not think it was worth it. I could not tell you how the public schools are, we don't have kids. I know the Rochester city schools were rated very high on the national average.
The weather is nice, you get three true seasons, it kinda skips the winter. Most of the trees are southern pine, red clay different mix of greens, the grass requires a little more water. My wife doesn't care for winter, I like the cool weather and the four seasons. My favorite season is fall when the air turns crisp and the leaves start to change.
So in a nutshell, what we didn't like: less to do, illegal immigrants, traffic, urban sprawl, housing costs, hot/humid weather.
What we did like: Drive to the beach, public market, lower taxes, very good Mexican food!!
If I were to recommend NC, I would seriously look at Charlotte over Raleigh. Charlotte is much larger, still has the same basic climate and you can actually walk around downtown. Much more to do in Charlotte. I like Rochester over Raleigh for alot of reasons, but if I had gotton a good job in Charlotte I am still not sure we would have moved. For now I am more than content in Rochester and am still glad we moved. I am really not trying to rip on NC, but we did not view Raleigh as the city everyone made it out to be. WNY has the same type of malls and restaurants, but they offer much more in terms of culture and experience over Raleigh.
I do like that "Indian summer" seems to last forever, through September and October and even into November. It did snow this past winter, but only once. We don't really need to buy boots, gloves, or hats. Most of the time, a regular jacket is fine in the winter.
I knew someone who has lived in Tennessee, and I didn't really believe people actually can't wait for winter. We used to goto Carolina beach alot, you take the 40 east to the end, and keep going, its ~2 hours also. The country and beach around camp Lageune (spelling) is very nice too, just not much to do. Our dog used to jump right in the water when it was 40 deg, loved every minute of it.
Interesting thread, since I grew up in the upstate NY area and left when I was 22. I spent 7 years in DC and just moved to the triangle (Wake county, Holly Springs).
I have quite a few friends that have left the upstate area to go elsewhere in search of greater opportunity, some have found it and some have moved back.
Here is what I see, leave aside all the temp recession business.
NY has reached it's peak of growth, and the triangle is just ramping up. In 30 years the triangle may be in the same place as upstate NY, socioeconomically.
EDIT: I love the way people complain about traffic in the triangle on I 40. After 7 years in DC I just laugh when people complain about traffic here.
Interesting thread, since I grew up in the upstate NY area and left when I was 22. I spent 7 years in DC and just moved to the triangle (Wake county, Holly Springs).
I have quite a few friends that have left the upstate area to go elsewhere in search of greater opportunity, some have found it and some have moved back.
Here is what I see, leave aside all the temp recession business.
NY has reached it's peak of growth, and the triangle is just ramping up. In 30 years the triangle may be in the same place as upstate NY, socioeconomically.
EDIT: I love the way people complain about traffic in the triangle on I 40. After 7 years in DC I just laugh when people complain about traffic here.
Several folks we know live in the Triangle Area, and they love it. Seems there are still ample opportunities for skilled folks, scientists, etc. Also, we have friends from NY who now live in TX, VA, WA, FL, and elsewhere, and they are doing well.
The Triangle area is beautiful, and like a lot of other medium sized Sun Belt metros, is expected to grow for many years to come. I frequently travel to that area on business, and it's definitely "primed", as you say. Traffic there is tolerable.
Upstate, NY, would get over its "perma-recession", if the special interest groups and the unions didn't have so much power over the legislature. Not to mention the corruption which is rampant up there, these days. Upstate peaked in the mid-60's, and really started to go downhill in spots in the early 70's. If the state were better off, we'd see major corporations flocking to there, as well as more small businesses popping up all over the place. Sadly, that's not what's happening, and I don't see it changing for a long time.
Upstate, NY, would get over its "perma-recession", if the special interest groups and the unions didn't have so much power over the legislature. Not to mention the corruption which is rampant up there, these days. Upstate peaked in the mid-60's, and really started to go downhill in spots in the early 70's. If the state were better off, we'd see major corporations flocking to there, as well as more small businesses popping up all over the place. Sadly, that's not what's happening, and I don't see it changing for a long time.
Most of Upstate NY peaked in the mid 40's. Most of the population peaked in the early 50's. And that all depends on what metro area you are talking about. I agree with you on politics and taxes, but most of Upstate NY is doing much better. Even Buffalo, which has a long, long way to go is doing its best in probably fifty years. There are a number of businesses expanding and moving to the area, its just not a huge bubble which people see down south.
It depends on what your looking for. Rochester has had minor increases/decreases in population over the past ten years and for a older city that should be normal. Huge increases and decreases are what we don't want. Steady and controlled growth is best and gives us the predictability that we now have.
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Living in Raleigh
