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Rochester is a midsized city. Most cities in America I would consider "mid sized". Big Cities...New York, LA, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Atlanta, Miami, Philadelphia, Washington DC....these are all what I would consider "big cities", all with several million people in population. Rochester fits the "mid-sized" city category to the T imo...city population of a little over 200k, metro pop a little over a million. Ithaca and Batavia are small cities (I'd argue Batavia is really more of a medium sized town). Other metro areas that could be put into the "medium sized" category with Rochester could be Buffalo, Richmond, VA, Grand Rapids, MI, Raleigh, NC (though Raleigh could be in the "Big city" category before you know it), Pittsburgh; Akron, OH; Hartford, CT;....also the OP's hometown of Omaha, NE. There are probably more "medium sized cities" in the US than "Big Cities"
NYMD67, what is your field? Also if you live in a large city, I would hope that you would not be expecting the same pay since the cost of living would be much lower here.
Actually, my field is Engineering and no, I don't live in a large city ( as in NYC or Chicago which I am assuming you would be referring to)
I have an MBA and understand that a larger city would obviously demand a higher salary,etc...
We live in the Mid-Atlantic, work in Baltimore. Our cost of living is much higher than Rochester's.
I am not bashing at all, as previously stated, we love it there,would love to come home,but can't find a job.
I tried to add this to my post last night and wasn't able to.. so I apologize for the continuation.
One thing that I have to say about the residents of Rochester who are posting on here (not just this thread,but many others) is that they are so willing to say negative things about their city but yet when facts are pointed out ,facts such as the extremely low cost of living (minus your insane taxes),the low cost of housing,the low demand for CERTAIN TYPES of jobs,etc... they get completely defensive.
Most of these issues are factual, all you have to do is read any newspaper there,go to realtor.com and look at the cost of homes in other areas,compare the same house there to the same house elsewhere (and it doesn't have to be a larger city).
Rochester is unfortunately not the same place it was back in the 80's and people have to be able to see that.
As for the post stating that they have 2nd homes,etc... well they are of the very few and fortunate who probably worked for Kodak and was able to retire doing well. That is not the case anymore and the 40yr olds out there today won't see that kind of extra income.
This obviously isn't the case just in Rochester,it is all over for the most part, however, there is a lack of opportunity for many people in Rochester.
It is not meant to be a criticism towards Rochester or it's residents so there really is not any need to be defensive, although I understand wanting to "stick up" for my hometown (because Roch doesnt' have a great reputation in other areas, I am CONSTANTLY sticking up for it!! ) It is the facts, and nothing more.
Where have you applied? I don't know what your experience level is but in the past couple of years I have several friends that found jobs pretty easily in the engineering field. They ranged from persons fresh out of college to people with 7-8 years of experience. They found jobs at places like Harris, L-3, Xerox/GE, ITT, etc.
I know of two people that moved back since last spring from the DC/Baltimore area and while they had to take a pay cut coming back here, they were able to afford homes. When they were living in the Bmore/DC area they were living in apartments with roomates while not being able to save that much money.
Thanks for the input garmin, I appreciate it and wish I were able to easily find those jobs.
I am a Manufacturing Engineer, have about 15 years experience ,most recently promoted to Manager of Engineering for my plant.
I have seen a few opportunities come my way in the past 8-10 years that we have lived away, however, yes, a salary cut would have been necessary and not just a small one, a pretty extreme one and I am not willing to do that. Not after years of college and working to get where I am.
I know many people in the Engineering field who do work in Rochester, however, they have never left the area and don't have the need or the desire to do so and they also admit that the demand is low,although, there are many contracted positions available through employment agencies. Also not willing to do that, the pay again is much less and the benefits would be non-existant.
So yes, I am asking for more than what the area is able to provide to my family & I at this time.
We will keep looking but just not as aggressively as we once were.
NYMD67; I've seen your posts on this thread and many other threads on this board. I think we share the same sentiment; consequently we live in the same region and share the same occupational field. My wife and my jaw drop every time we do a MLS search in Rochester and see the type of house and neighborhood/school district we could buy if our current salaries could remain constant; even with the higher taxes. In the mid-atlantic region a 3 bedroom home with a yard and a garage is becoming distint dream for many; unless an hour commute to amish country doesn't bother you. It's little more than 15mins from point to point almost anywhere in Monroe county, almost any time of day. In that 15mins you can cross downtown, city residential, suburbs, and fairly rural.
For many people and it's evident on this board, it's takes an experience somewhere else in order to be the measuring stick. I have many college lacrosse buddies (from rocha) who share the same sentiments most took their first jobs in other mid-atlantic cities, because that's just where the opportunities were. We all reminisce about a great experience growing up in Rochester and would all move back if it weren't for our spouse, our job, or that house we just bought. The first line out of all of them is: "Rochester is a great place to raise a family". And I hear that time and time again on this board.
Some people will always appreciate what they have when it's right in front of them (unfortunately I'm not one of those people). If I could go back I'd have a little weekend place somewhere in the finger lakes (for less than $100K), shop at Wegmans, spend a week a summer in the Adirondacks, and try to get down to NYC and up to Toronto for long weekends a few times a year. One thing I find with my extended family and the few remaining friends I have in the Roch area is that they tend not to go anywhere - except Florida. Maybe they go to Buffalo for a Bills game or go to SU for basketball game but that's about it. I do not make that generalization for everyone because I know the many people from Rochester travel to other places; but from my own circle I find they don't leave too often much.
Someone mentioned that all their family does well enough to have mortgages paid, second homes, etc.. I've seen in my own extended family the same thing and also careered veterans laid off by Kodak and Xerox. My observation is this for my family that has done well, they are all self-employed - taking many years to get where they are today. Those who have done well but aren't self-employed have lived conservatively - saved, lived in their house for 20+ years, and have downsized once the kids have moved out. No one in my extended family (of my parents generation) is a degreed professional - lawyer, doctor; or even what we call "white" collar - engineer, accountant, financial analyst, etc... If my sample is reflective of the population perhaps that's why Rochester has always weathered the storm with the decline of it's industrial products base; it's still maintained it's service base. That "blue" collar attitude is what I think gives Rochester it's character. I laugh that some of my uncles; who do well by anyone in the country's standards; change their own oil, drink Labatt Blue or Genny Light, and enjoy nice $12 friday fish fry as a night out.
I guess it really just comes down to perspective. A coach of mine who had spent some time in other parts of the country once told me that he thinks upstate NY - Buffalo, Roch., Syracuse are the best secrets in the country. For those who know and love Rochester that word "secret" is probably a good thing. For those don't know Roch or don't hold it in very high regard "secret" is probably one of the reasons they'll never go there or can't wait to go someplace else.
I don't know too much about that field but it sounds like your specific job is not in demand here. Most people I know went to school for EE and ME. I'm assuming that these fields are much different from what you do.
I tried to add this to my post last night and wasn't able to.. so I apologize for the continuation.
One thing that I have to say about the residents of Rochester who are posting on here (not just this thread,but many others) is that they are so willing to say negative things about their city but yet when facts are pointed out ,facts such as the extremely low cost of living (minus your insane taxes),the low cost of housing,the low demand for CERTAIN TYPES of jobs,etc... they get completely defensive.
Most of these issues are factual, all you have to do is read any newspaper there,go to realtor.com and look at the cost of homes in other areas,compare the same house there to the same house elsewhere (and it doesn't have to be a larger city).
Rochester is unfortunately not the same place it was back in the 80's and people have to be able to see that.
As for the post stating that they have 2nd homes,etc... well they are of the very few and fortunate who probably worked for Kodak and was able to retire doing well. That is not the case anymore and the 40yr olds out there today won't see that kind of extra income.
This obviously isn't the case just in Rochester,it is all over for the most part, however, there is a lack of opportunity for many people in Rochester.
It is not meant to be a criticism towards Rochester or it's residents so there really is not any need to be defensive, although I understand wanting to "stick up" for my hometown (because Roch doesnt' have a great reputation in other areas, I am CONSTANTLY sticking up for it!! ) It is the facts, and nothing more.
Cost of living is a mis-conception. You have to look at it being relative to the area. You can say wow a home cost 90 to 120k but it is usually a post ww2 home and about 1000 to 1500 sqft. Also your chances of making over 70k household income is about 13%-20%,but if you made over 70k most of those neighborhoods homes are around 140 to 200k. Now you have taxes which are about 28 to 33 dollars per 1000, That could be about $4,200 for a 150k home . Sales taxes is 7.25 to 8.5%, State income tax is 6 to 9%.
So lets take a look at this:
Cost of living
Monroe county average household income $47,339
Average home price $122,000
Property tax $3,400
Average mortgage $1,263 x 12=15,156
Baltimore county average household income $59,995
Average home price $253,600
Property tax $3200
Average mortgage $1,528 x 12=18,336
So even though the price of the home in Baltimore is more money, Rochester pays more percentage of income. Monroe county mortgage makes up 32% of a household income verse Baltimore is 30.5%. I did not factor property tax in it because it is some time reflected in mortgage payments.
Rochester is a midsized city. Most cities in America I would consider "mid sized". Big Cities...New York, LA, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Atlanta, Miami, Philadelphia, Washington DC....these are all what I would consider "big cities", all with several million people in population. Rochester fits the "mid-sized" city category to the T imo...city population of a little over 200k, metro pop a little over a million. Ithaca and Batavia are small cities (I'd argue Batavia is really more of a medium sized town). Other metro areas that could be put into the "medium sized" category with Rochester could be Buffalo, Richmond, VA, Grand Rapids, MI, Raleigh, NC (though Raleigh could be in the "Big city" category before you know it), Pittsburgh; Akron, OH; Hartford, CT;....also the OP's hometown of Omaha, NE. There are probably more "medium sized cities" in the US than "Big Cities"
Again, I don't think that it could be an mid-size city if rochester msa is the 49th largest Msa in america.Only 50 cities(msa) in America make up a Million or more out of 550 msa.That means only 9% of america Msa are over a million so how is that mid-size city. Even if you just take the cities population it is 96 out 400 cities. Nyc is consider a Mega-city. I would say any msa that is 700k to 400k is a mid size city.
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) It is the facts, and nothing more.
