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As I mentioned earlier, this isn't unique to Rochester and far more complex than just two Rochesters. To be honest, it's not even about generations of poor Black citizens.
I wouldn’t say it’s that complex. Monroe County is horribly segregated (bad even by US standards) and segregation and white flight are not natural or accidental phenomenas; the current predicament of black people being stuck in the worst neighborhoods is an entirely intentional arrangement borne of old-fashioned racism. It’s also self-perpetuating (black people stuck in poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods with underfunded and segregated schools struggle as a result which leads to more poverty and crime which their kids are then born into who then face the same problems and on and on) discriminatory practices like redlining continue and even though they’re not as widespread as it was back in the 70s-80s the initial destabilization lead to the cycles of poverty and crime I mentioned above. The Rochester area has one of the toughest school districts in anerica (RCSD) surrounded on all sides by some of the richest, best-ranked school districts in America (in ritzy all-white suburbs like Pittsford) it’s an arrangement we could theoretically end tomorrow with busing or a metropolitan school district if it weren’t for the total opposition of wealthier white people in politically powerful communities like Brighton or Fairport. None of this is unique to this area; you find the same or similar situation in any other city especially larger ones like Rochester and upwards.
I'm not saying every black person is going to be a victim but you're trying to whitesplain that it's basically always the black person's fault bc of lifestyle and that's not true. How does a 22 yo girl walking to class fit that assumption?
You can live on Monroe and have no problem bc thugs know that if they mess with white people, it's going to be big news. That's why I don't worry about being on avenue d. I have to go there bc an individual in the group home has immediate family who live there and we're required to take them.
Anyway, I really don't want to argue. I have spoken to numerous lower to lower middle class black people who have lived in Rochester their whole lives and I know that black people have a totally different life experience than white people. And with all due respect, I'm going to give more weight to their reality than what you think it is.
I'm not saying every black person is going to be a victim but you're trying to whitesplain that it's basically always the black person's fault bc of lifestyle and that's not true. How does a 22 yo girl walking to class fit that assumption?
You don't need to "whitesplain" anything to me since I never said anything even close to what you are claiming I said. I never said it was the "Black person's fault". What I actually said is that Black on Black violence is a problem that is not unique to Rochester. Every city in America has it. It's a societal problem in which problems are solved with violence instead of understanding, and where a seemingly innocent act such as looking at somebody can be interpreted as aggression and met back with violence. This has nothing to do with lifestyle and everything to do with culture.
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You can live on Monroe and have no problem bc thugs know that if they mess with white people, it's going to be big news. That's why I don't worry about being on avenue d. I have to go there bc an individual in the group home has immediate family who live there and we're required to take them.
Anyway, I really don't want to argue. I have spoken to numerous lower to lower middle class black people who have lived in Rochester their whole lives and I know that black people have a totally different life experience than white people. And with all due respect, I'm going to give more weight to their reality than what you think it is.
You are agreeing with me then. The city is not dangerous except for those areas that have historically always been poor, or the type of violence that occurs in Rochester among groups, are the same types of violent interactions that happen in every city in America.
I wouldn’t say it’s that complex. Monroe County is horribly segregated (bad even by US standards) and segregation and white flight are not natural or accidental phenomenas; the current predicament of black people being stuck in the worst neighborhoods is an entirely intentional arrangement borne of old-fashioned racism. It’s also self-perpetuating (black people stuck in poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods with underfunded and segregated schools struggle as a result which leads to more poverty and crime which their kids are then born into who then face the same problems and on and on) discriminatory practices like redlining continue and even though they’re not as widespread as it was back in the 70s-80s the initial destabilization lead to the cycles of poverty and crime I mentioned above. The Rochester area has one of the toughest school districts in anerica (RCSD) surrounded on all sides by some of the richest, best-ranked school districts in America (in ritzy all-white suburbs like Pittsford) it’s an arrangement we could theoretically end tomorrow with busing or a metropolitan school district if it weren’t for the total opposition of wealthier white people in politically powerful communities like Brighton or Fairport. None of this is unique to this area; you find the same or similar situation in any other city especially larger ones like Rochester and upwards.
First of all the city schools are not underfunded. They have all the funding they need. They are just very poorly run.
Secondly, what you are suggesting with busing students already exists. It's called "Urban Suburban", and with the exception of a very small number of closed-minded individuals, the program does not have any opposition.
Urban Suburban or funding will not fix the city schools or poverty in these areas. If anything, all Urban Surbuban does is make the problem for the city schools worse. Because the minority students that do care about their education are leaving the schools and instead being taught among peers that also care in a suburban school. While a much better situation on an individual basis, it's not a solution for the city schools. To fix the city schools is going to require a cultural shift. Where students have pride for their education and the history of the area they live in.
You don't need to "whitesplain" anything to me since I never said anything even close to what you are claiming I said. I never said it was the "Black person's fault". What I actually said is that Black on Black violence is a problem that is not unique to Rochester. Every city in America has it. It's a societal problem in which problems are solved with violence instead of understanding, and where a seemingly innocent act such as looking at somebody can be interpreted as aggression and met back with violence. This has nothing to do with lifestyle and everything to do with culture.
You are agreeing with me then. The city is not dangerous except for those areas that have historically always been poor, or the type of violence that occurs in Rochester among groups, are the same types of violent interactions that happen in every city in America.
I wasn't directly referring to you, just in general to the responses. The avenue d explanation was for you.
I left Rochester and one thing I didn't like was the "two Rochesters" The divide between middle class (white) and extremely poor (black). One minute you're in a trendy neighborhood surrounded by middle class white hipsters, then you're in a bad neighbourhood, one which has probably suffered from generations of poverty. Unsafe though? I seldom really felt threatened in most places, but then I kept to myself and didn't go wandering around at night
It is complex because what you are really referring to is “concentrated poverty”, that happens to largely impact blacks and Hispanics(but includes its share of whites too) disproportionately in the city.
With that said, not all or even most of the black people in the city of Rochester are poor. In fact, just to use a couple examples from the map, but those green areas in the outer SW(19th Ward) and outer NE are actually either predominantly black(outer SW) or has a high/above average black percentage(outer NE) that are actually working/middle class. There are parts of outer NW and even in SE with substantial to high black percentages that are similar as well. Oddly, I’ve been putting this information out in another thread in part for such reasons, as a lot of people just go by media reports versus personal interaction/research.
Also, it isn’t like the city is the only part of Monroe County black folks live in at least “visible” numbers, as the Western suburbs(including parts of Irondequoit and Henrietta) come to mind. In fact, based on recent information(2010-2014 census information) the Black median household income for the Rush-Henrietta SD was higher than any other group and was just under $80,000 and I believe in 2016, that group tied for the highest graduation rate of any group(93%) and was at 92% in 2017 in that relative culturally diverse suburban SD. Yet, you likely aren’t going to find that out anywhere else, but through research. So, we have to be careful to just take in the same usually negative narrative told over and over, while another real narrative within a community/population gets overlooked. Just so people don’t think I’m making that up about Rush-Henrietta: Rush-Henrietta Central School District Historical Median Household Income by Races Data - USA.com™
Idk, I feel like it really depends on your race. I work with a lot of black people and ALL of them have been victims of violence in the city. One girl is only 22 and got jumped by 2 guys when she was walking to MCC. Another guy got mugged on Monroe Ave and then threw him on the ground and busted 2 of his teeth and the insurance won't fix them.
No one I work with is a gangster so it's not like they are involved with trouble, but even they say that black people aren't safe in Rochester. I don't understand this city, especially coming from the NYC metro. NYC feels so much safer, even in the Bronx.
I have a client and I have to take them to visit family members on avenue D and that place is straight hood but I don't think they'd ever mess with me but I bet they'd mess with my black coworkers.
The suburbs are awesome, though.
Weird because Monroe is entirely on the green / safe parts of the neighborhood map??
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Originally Posted by db2797
As I mentioned earlier, this isn't unique to Rochester and far more complex than just two Rochesters. To be honest, it's not even about generations of poor Black citizens. Rochester has one of the highest concentrations of Italians of any city. The Italian and German immigrants are about 2 generations ago. These immigrants were very poor and settled into the parts of the city that are also today very poor. It was just a demographic shift from the poor Italians who over a few generations their children became wealthier and moved to the suburbs to what is now a majority Black in those exact same houses and neighborhoods. The fact that they were previously poor most likely made them affordable to those who moved in over the last generation.
To give you perspective, the poor Italian immigrants even changed their names to more American names in order to assimilate, because when they first came here, they couldn't find jobs and nobody would hire them.
true my grandfather changed our family name for this reason in CT . I think it's different though the drug culture was less developed so there wasn't as much violence related to that
I have lived in the Boston area my whole life so that's the only city I can compare to. Over here it's safe to walk around anyplace during the day but not necessarily after dark. The city is highly segregated but not quite to the point where you get weird looks or threatened for just passing through a particular neighborhood. Would you say Rochester is similar to this or worse?
Weird because Monroe is entirely on the green / safe parts of the neighborhood map?
it isn't a bad neighborhood but there's a nightlife scene and I guess my coworker just got unlucky. I feel bad for him bc now he has 2 front teeth that are essentially 1/2 teeth now and insurance will not fix them since it's "cosmetic". I just don't understand.
I wouldn’t say it’s that complex. Monroe County is horribly segregated (bad even by US standards) and segregation and white flight are not natural or accidental phenomenas; the current predicament of black people being stuck in the worst neighborhoods is an entirely intentional arrangement borne of old-fashioned racism. It’s also self-perpetuating (black people stuck in poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods with underfunded and segregated schools struggle as a result which leads to more poverty and crime which their kids are then born into who then face the same problems and on and on) discriminatory practices like redlining continue and even though they’re not as widespread as it was back in the 70s-80s the initial destabilization lead to the cycles of poverty and crime I mentioned above. The Rochester area has one of the toughest school districts in anerica (RCSD) surrounded on all sides by some of the richest, best-ranked school districts in America (in ritzy all-white suburbs like Pittsford) it’s an arrangement we could theoretically end tomorrow with busing or a metropolitan school district if it weren’t for the total opposition of wealthier white people in politically powerful communities like Brighton or Fairport. None of this is unique to this area; you find the same or similar situation in any other city especially larger ones like Rochester and upwards.
Ironically, you must not be familiar with this program in the area that has been going on for decades: https://www.monroe.edu/Page/933
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