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Old 09-28-2019, 07:55 PM
 
5,479 posts, read 3,956,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Hasn't the local economy just changed from a handful of large employers, to much of the talent from those employers just starting their own smaller companies?

Some relatively recent and interesting economic information about the region: https://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov...akesregion.pdf

Rochester has always had a large core of smaller businesses, especially in tool and die business, fortunately. That's what killed Detroit. The automakers gobbled up all the small businesses, so when the auto companies went away, the city was lost.


Of course it's great having the deep pockets of a large corporation. More executive jobs, more charity and sponsorships. Kodak alone added at least a thousand new jobs a year. When they introduced the (failed) disc camera, they hired 3,000 people.
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
1,859 posts, read 3,408,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
Rochester evolved around large industrial employers. In the last 20 years, or so, many of those employers such as Kodak, Xerox, General Motors, Bausch & Lomb, General Dynamics, to name a few, have either closed up shop completely, or greatly downsized. With their departures, a tremendous number of blue collar, BUT very good paying jobs, have left the area. Those jobs were the engines that powered the area's economy.


Yes, sports teams, art galleries, and entertainment venues would be nice, but without a population that has a fair amount of disposable income, it's never going to happen. And, I'm also aware that in order to attract potential employers, you also need the social aspects of life. However, that becomes the classic example of what came first, the chicken or the egg.


You also need a city/county government that is willing to do what it takes, in terms of security, in order to attract outsiders. Years ago, I had a friend who owned an auto repair shop on West Broad Street, right near Lyell Ave. He told me about this....The original Delco/later Sykes Datatronics building was sitting there, vacant, across the street from his shop. A commercial real estate broker managed to interest another electronics firm, to come and inspect the property, and potentially set up their business in Rochester.


As many of us know, the Lyell Ave "neighborhood" is a little on the rough side. The potential buyer, however was VERY interested in the building, as it had everything they needed, to manufacture their products, with very little renovation. They were willing to overlook the location, somewhat, if the city was willing to beef up the Police presence in the area around the building. A meeting was held between the broker, the buyer, and then-Mayor, Bill Johnson. The result? Johnson flatly refused to accommodate the buyer, saying that the area is "just fine", and there shouldn't be any need for additional patrols by the RPD.


The buyers simply shook their heads, walked away, and set up shop somewhere in New England, taking their potential jobs and tax dollars somewhere else......and 2-3 years ago, after sitting vacant for 15-20 years, the building was torn down.
A bunch of tech start-ups were in Rochester in the 80's, but regulations which were helped along by Microsoft and other companies forced them out of business. Much of the talent left town for places like Austin and Silicon Valley. I know about the story you cite.

My take is there are many connected people around Rochester, Bill Johnson being one of them, who love their get rich quick schemes, and much of it has involved hair brained schemes and real estate. There's no real leadership on the private sector business side, really, which is part of the problem. Duffy and Parker before him were and are poor choices for "business leaders", and quite frankly defy logic.

I'm glad that High Falls and other pockets there in town are getting a new lease on lffe, again, terrible leadership in the 80's and 90's ensured downtown Rochester declined on the private sector side of things, and was left behind while start-ups were founded in surrounding towns. Time will tell if those companies can retain their talent, and not lose folks to other metros.

What does Rochester need? Leadership.
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:08 AM
 
Location: western NY
6,188 posts, read 2,972,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWRocks View Post
…..Of course it's great having the deep pockets of a large corporation. More executive jobs, more charity and sponsorships. Kodak alone added at least a thousand new jobs a year. When they introduced the (failed) disc camera, they hired 3,000 people.

Using Kodak as an example, they, as a LARGE corporation (at least "back in the day") had employee benefits, that no small company can support. Things like softball leagues, bowling leagues, indoor hockey leagues, travel clubs, etc. With respect to health and life insurance, a company such as Kodak, with 50,000 employees, can negotiate a far better rate for it's employees than a small company with 50 employees.


It's truly a shame that Kodak "ran it's course", and was then guided into near oblivion, by the MIS-management of the "management team" of the last 20 years. As a former Kodak employee, IMHO, there was VERY LITTLE need for the CEO, and others of that level, to have any say whatsoever, in the direction of the company. They came in, milked the job for what it was worth, took a big paycheck for very little positive input, and then ran off into the sunset.


The way I see it, EK's highly competent R&D team came up with the products, the capable people on the shop floor produced them, and the advertising people created the interest in them.....and then the products pretty much sold themselves. The "brass" were there "just for show", and nothing more, and should have had very little say, in how the company was run. While the film division was it's own entity, EK's "hardware manufacturing division", located at the Elmgrove facility, was a self-contained, modern marvel of manufacturing capability. And EK's optics division, primarily located at the Hawk-Eye facility, was a "world class" producer of precision optical components. Those two divisions, if managed properly, most likely could have survived on their own, and become profit centers for the corporation at large.


Sadly, rather than diversify, and produce components for other businesses, and generate income, EK kept their capabilities to themselves, and when the "mother ship", as it was called, sank, it took most of the other divisions with it. The optics groups, at least portions of them, were sold off to other entities, and now exist, in smaller operations, as "RPO", 'Rochester Precision Optics', as well as 'ITT Industries', later 'ITT Exelis', later 'Harris Corporation', and most recently, 'L3Harris'.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:00 PM
 
92,011 posts, read 122,107,559 times
Reputation: 18136
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
Using Kodak as an example, they, as a LARGE corporation (at least "back in the day") had employee benefits, that no small company can support. Things like softball leagues, bowling leagues, indoor hockey leagues, travel clubs, etc. With respect to health and life insurance, a company such as Kodak, with 50,000 employees, can negotiate a far better rate for it's employees than a small company with 50 employees.


It's truly a shame that Kodak "ran it's course", and was then guided into near oblivion, by the MIS-management of the "management team" of the last 20 years. As a former Kodak employee, IMHO, there was VERY LITTLE need for the CEO, and others of that level, to have any say whatsoever, in the direction of the company. They came in, milked the job for what it was worth, took a big paycheck for very little positive input, and then ran off into the sunset.


The way I see it, EK's highly competent R&D team came up with the products, the capable people on the shop floor produced them, and the advertising people created the interest in them.....and then the products pretty much sold themselves. The "brass" were there "just for show", and nothing more, and should have had very little say, in how the company was run. While the film division was it's own entity, EK's "hardware manufacturing division", located at the Elmgrove facility, was a self-contained, modern marvel of manufacturing capability. And EK's optics division, primarily located at the Hawk-Eye facility, was a "world class" producer of precision optical components. Those two divisions, if managed properly, most likely could have survived on their own, and become profit centers for the corporation at large.


Sadly, rather than diversify, and produce components for other businesses, and generate income, EK kept their capabilities to themselves, and when the "mother ship", as it was called, sank, it took most of the other divisions with it. The optics groups, at least portions of them, were sold off to other entities, and now exist, in smaller operations, as "RPO", 'Rochester Precision Optics', as well as 'ITT Industries', later 'ITT Exelis', later 'Harris Corporation', and most recently, 'L3Harris'.
Do many companies, in general, even do this as much as they used to in the past? For instance, the companies my parents worked at used to have nice Christmas parties, where kids of the employees would get gifts. you don't really see that as much anymore, anywhere, to my limited knowledge.

also, is that ITT related to the ITT/Gould Pumps in Seneca Falls(which actually has quite a few openings, by the way)?
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:41 PM
 
Location: western NY
6,188 posts, read 2,972,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Do many companies, in general, even do this as much as they used to in the past? For instance, the companies my parents worked at used to have nice Christmas parties, where kids of the employees would get gifts. you don't really see that as much anymore, anywhere, to my limited knowledge.

Also, is that ITT related to the ITT/Gould Pumps in Seneca Falls(which actually has quite a few openings, by the way)?


I've been out of the full-time work force since 2008, so I'm not all that familiar with what various businesses are presently doing. What I do know, is that as I was "bailing out", corporate America was becoming obsessed with "political correctness", and things like Christmas, and Christmas parties, weren't respectful to other religions and people's beliefs, so they were being phased out, I think.....


With respect to ITT, yes, the Goulds Pumps operation fell under ITT's corporate umbrella, however ITT sold it's interests in the former Kodak business unit to Harris, about 4 years ago, who recently merged with L3 Technologies.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:49 PM
 
92,011 posts, read 122,107,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
I've been out of the full-time work force since 2008, so I'm not all that familiar with what various businesses are presently doing. What I do know, is that as I was "bailing out", corporate America was becoming obsessed with "political correctness", and things like Christmas, and Christmas parties, weren't respectful to other religions and people's beliefs, so they were being phased out, I think.....


With respect to ITT, yes, the Goulds Pumps operation fell under ITT's corporate umbrella, however ITT sold it's interests in the former Kodak business unit to Harris, about 4 years ago, who recently merged with L3 Technologies.
To be honest, I don’t think the Christmas party aspect is that deep, but perhaps it may be a matter of demographic and even social changes in terms of celebration of holidays. With that said, there are places that still have said parties, but just go about it a different way.

To bring it back to the topic, I think a simple promotion of the Erie Canal villages would go a long way in terms of highlighting aspects that could interest people like their walkability and use of the canal in the life of residents of these communities. It is something that is pretty unique, but may be underestimated in its own area.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:29 PM
 
5,479 posts, read 3,956,975 times
Reputation: 4933
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Do many companies, in general, even do this as much as they used to in the past? For instance, the companies my parents worked at used to have nice Christmas parties, where kids of the employees would get gifts. you don't really see that as much anymore, anywhere, to my limited knowledge.

also, is that ITT related to the ITT/Gould Pumps in Seneca Falls(which actually has quite a few openings, by the way)?


I don't remember any kids parties, but there always were adult Christmas parties. Those all ended when the DWI laws got tougher. Companies didn't want to accept responsibility with alcohol involved.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:15 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
5,342 posts, read 3,821,768 times
Reputation: 7264
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I don't know, as it is one of the fastest growing sports in the country and places like Denver and even parts of Texas are areas where the sport has been seeing some growth. So, while it is tough to predict these type of things, its growth is legitimate. In fact, Rochester lost its Major League Lacrosse franchise due it moving to the Dallas area.

Just so people don't think I'm making this up: https://coachad.com/articles/lacross...thers-closing/

For instance, when I was in high school, we didn't have a Lacrosse program. Now, since it started about 15 years ago or so, it has become a regular Sectional contender and many high schools have gotten programs within the past 10-15 years or so.
Not to derail the thread with lacrosse talk, but here in the Buffalo area, Orchard Park was a bit of a high school lacrosse dynasty (might still be; I haven't been paying attention over the past several years), but it seemed like whenever they reached sectionals, they'd lose to West Genesee out of the Syracuse area. I know you're from 'Cuse--I'd assume West Genesee's program might date back further than the newish ones you refer to?

The Knighthawks are no more, eh? Didn't know that. Checking Wikipedia, though, you appear to be slightly mistaken on the details...here's the relevant portion:

'The Knighthawks are owned by Pegula Sports and Entertainment who purchased the intellectual property of the team from former owner Curt Styres who moved the previous version of the team to Halifax, Nova Scotia as the Halifax Thunderbirds at the end of the 2018-2019 season. As an expansion team they are not a continuation of the previous Knighthawks.[1] All records and championships were transferred to Halifax.'

So it's kind of a Cleveland Browns-esque situation where a new version of the team will pick up where the old one left off, same name and all. And the old one moved to Halifax, not Dallas
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:38 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
5,342 posts, read 3,821,768 times
Reputation: 7264
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoarke View Post
A bunch of tech start-ups were in Rochester in the 80's, but regulations which were helped along by Microsoft and other companies forced them out of business. Much of the talent left town for places like Austin and Silicon Valley. I know about the story you cite.

My take is there are many connected people around Rochester, Bill Johnson being one of them, who love their get rich quick schemes, and much of it has involved hair brained schemes and real estate. There's no real leadership on the private sector business side, really, which is part of the problem. Duffy and Parker before him were and are poor choices for "business leaders", and quite frankly defy logic.

I'm glad that High Falls and other pockets there in town are getting a new lease on lffe, again, terrible leadership in the 80's and 90's ensured downtown Rochester declined on the private sector side of things, and was left behind while start-ups were founded in surrounding towns. Time will tell if those companies can retain their talent, and not lose folks to other metros.

What does Rochester need? Leadership.
Would be interested to hear an elaboration of your first sentence. I've read some of your other posts over the years and am aware you are generally knowledgeable on Rochester industry, if not on the spelling of 'hare-brained', lol (as in, brain of a rabbit, not a brain that's apparently coated with ingrown hairs). I was born in '86 and am from Buffalo so my '80s Rochester knowledge is next to nonexistent.

eh, maybe I have to begrudgingly concede the acceptability of 'hair-brained'...from dictionary.com:

'Usage Note: The first recorded use of harebrained dates to 1548. The spelling hairbrained also has a long history, going back to the 1500s when hair was a variant spelling of hare. The hair variant was preserved in Scotland into the 1700s, and as a result it is impossible to tell exactly when people began writing hairbrained in the belief that the word means "having a hair-sized brain" rather than "with no more sense than a hare." While hairbrained continues to be used, the standard spelling of the word is harebrained.'
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:54 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
5,342 posts, read 3,821,768 times
Reputation: 7264
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
What I do know, is that as I was "bailing out", corporate America was becoming obsessed with "political correctness", and things like Christmas, and Christmas parties, weren't respectful to other religions and people's beliefs, so they were being phased out, I think.....

Is it politically incorrect in a way you'd approve for me to say that all religion, all metaphysical ideas, anything supernatural, anything superstitious, anything that purportedly transcends or defies physics is patently absurd? Because as long as we're decrying political correctness I'll make sure to advocate for atheism as loudly as possible. Hope you enjoy it!

(Political correctness is closely related to the notion of tolerance...just as I tolerate a religious majority in this country that I consider to be clinging to archaic myths, I expect the same tolerance for my resolute unbelief in return. 'Political correctness', unnecessarily loaded term that that is, is another of way of stating that we steer clear of contentious debate when it is unnecessary for the sake of maintaining civility. I love when conservatives harp on the supposed repugnance of political correctness when in actuality they're the beneficiaries of it every day--lots of irreligious liberals (and atheism does correlate with liberalism) harbor quiet contempt for the religious that is kept quiet by some aspect of the social contract that may be (mis-)labeled as 'political correctness'. Political correctness works both ways, is my point. I read one of your prior posts where you railed against liberals so I know where you stand, despite your quite reasonable and dare i say semi-Marxist-in-spirit post above where you rightly dismissed the influence of the Kodak execs on the actual day-to-day (or grand-scheme) functioning of the company)

Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 10-05-2019 at 09:03 PM..
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