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Old 05-22-2011, 12:10 AM
 
28 posts, read 33,568 times
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My husband and I are considering moving with our son to Rochester. It's just no comparison when put next to Albuquerque, where we're from, from the numbers and the idea that basically, anywhere is better than here.

Here's a few things I can't stand that I'm hoping are better in Rochester... can you confirm or correct for me?

-The people here are TOTAL jerks. Yeah, there are those that are chill (lots of "Do I have to move?" lack of motivation here), but the rest of everyone is the rude side of "do I have to?". People get in your way just to stop or slow down. Saying "excuse me" does no good because they're doing it on purpose. It's like people get pleasure out of being rude here. So, I don't like that kind of energy in my life and I don't want my son raised around it.
-COL is much higher than they make it seem here. The pay is low (a job requiring a Bachelor's starts at $10/hr), so the things you pay for seem to cost so much more. The working poor, the amount of people working who are still below poverty, is 42% here. You CANNOT buy a livable house for less than 100k most of the time. A decent 3 bedroom (not nice, decent) is 180k. Low rent for a 1-bedroom is 600 if you're out of the war zone.
-Yes, the war zone. Politely retitled recently as the "International District". This is the most community interaction there is here. Well, there's the International District/war zone and then the upper NE Heights neighborhoods that dictate what companies you can have an alarm system with and require you become a member in order to buy your house there. Even though they don't own the houses. It's really weird how they get away with it. As for the war zone, well, we live in it right now and at least once a week there are cops on my street. At least once a month, cops are at my apartment building (and not for us). A couple months ago my husband got interrogated by a cop with a rifle for leaving our apt because our neighborhood was locked down while they were looking for a child kidnapper. Tonight there were 5 or 6 gunshots somewhere nearby. It probably won't even be on the news, it's so common. They try to paint this place as so pretty, and it is, if you stay out of the bad areas and don't watch the news or look up crime reports.
- It's UGLY. There's trash everywhere even in nicer neighborhoods. There's graffiti on everything supposed to be decent and "cleaning" means they put an ugly gray patch of paint over it. We get "snow" but then it mixes in with the dirt and weeds. We have brown ice and everything else melts within a couple hours. I'm sick of passing Christmas and not seeing a single snowflake.
-We can't drink our water. We pour it from the tap and it comes out cloudy. It tastes metallic and smells of sulfur. Yeah, it's within the requirements, but I think someone's lying.
-The education is terrible. Just horrid. People here don't know the very basics of math and English. A friend I graduated with is taking a class in college and is just learning what pronouns are. I was in advanced classes in high school, and they covered the stuff that college considers elementary education.
-Medicine is terrible, doctors are specifically either out of touch or just not interested, prenatal care is terrible (trust me, I refuse to have another child in this state).
-The public assistance here is horrid. It helps noone. Nobody here does anything except by the numbers. Not a personal situation, but something I've noticed that bothers me. They don't use cash diversion programs really at all. They'd rather give you a few dollars starting next month, when you've already lost your job. It's totally silly.
-The culture here is fake. There's one street with "cultural" spots, and they're pretty bare except for the hipsters who want to say they're cultured. College kids that "grow out of it" as soon as they've got something better to do. The local orchestra just went bankrupt. There are few local choirs or performing groups. Culture is the exception, not the rule.
-It's hot, swamp coolers stink, and ugly dirty men without their shirts or teeth **** me off. Especially when they ask me in no uncertain terms if I'm available for the night.
-I'm not exactly in love with the drunk girl at the bus stop trying to sell me her food stamps so she can buy more beer, either. She can get aggressive if her boyfriend's not there to take her behind the bus stop to make out. I just found out from my husband that he only makes out with her if it's another woman present. He's used to seeing the guy take her behind the bus stop and beating her. My last time walking home from the bus stop, a cop was trying to get a drunk passed out in a parking lot to stand up.
-There's 2 degrees of separation with anyone I meet. It's getting annoying and I'd like to meet new people that don't know anyone I know already.


This is NOT the place for me. I'm a work at home mom and wife. I'm in the Honors program in school. I dream of a proper local market and being close to Broadway, consistent local choirs, and decent art galleries. I dream of a yard not made of concrete. Grass for my kid, and a decent education with language classes and music... We love to go camping and would love to be near water. I like wearing nice clothes and taking care of myself. The people here that I can identify with are so stuck up I don't want to. There's this air of authority and entitlement here. So please tell me that the good scores for schools I've seen, the boasts of good medical care, the nice people I've heard of, and the gorgeous neighborhoods with markets and reasonable housing prices are true!!!

I'm in love with the 19th ward, by the way It looks like the one part of this city I like, but it's everywhere!
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
1,859 posts, read 3,409,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsmedea View Post
My husband and I are considering moving with our son to Rochester. It's just no comparison when put next to Albuquerque, where we're from, from the numbers and the idea that basically, anywhere is better than here.
Be careful what you wish for, and just make sure it won't be an impulse move.

Quote:
Here's a few things I can't stand that I'm hoping are better in Rochester... can you confirm or correct for me?

-The people here are TOTAL jerks. Yeah, there are those that are chill (lots of "Do I have to move?" lack of motivation here), but the rest of everyone is the rude side of "do I have to?". People get in your way just to stop or slow down. Saying "excuse me" does no good because they're doing it on purpose. It's like people get pleasure out of being rude here. So, I don't like that kind of energy in my life and I don't want my son raised around it.
Depends on the part of Rochester you end up in, if you make the move. Driving sucks in parts of town although in most parts of Monroe County the traffic isn't bad and people drive in a civilized manner. Quite a stark contrast with, say, Charlotte, NC, or Phoenix.

"Rude" can be a relative term, IMHO. I'm not sure about rude, per se, but Rochester folks can come across as being a little more high-strung than, say, folks from Buffalo or Syracuse.

Quote:
-COL is much higher than they make it seem here. The pay is low (a job requiring a Bachelor's starts at $10/hr), so the things you pay for seem to cost so much more. The working poor, the amount of people working who are still below poverty, is 42% here. You CANNOT buy a livable house for less than 100k most of the time. A decent 3 bedroom (not nice, decent) is 180k. Low rent for a 1-bedroom is 600 if you're out of the war zone.
Meh, that's how it goes in a lot of places, these days, re: housing.

Taxes are very high in New York, so be wary of that. COL is high in Portland, OR, too, and I've heard the same said about that town as your description of Albuquerque re: COL and the scarcity of decent and well-paying jobs. We've known folks who had to leave Rochester despite having technical master's degrees, as they couldn't find anything in their fields and had to resort to working low-end retail jobs. In that way it's kinda relative, I suppose, as one must have the right skills set(s) and education to be able to relocate to a place like Rochester, and get by, especially if they have kids. The other "flavor" are folks with beau coup education, skills, certifications, etc., who end up laid off in Upstate, and who can't find well-paying jobs in their fields.

In Rochester you'll be competing against folks of all ages if you go the retail route, right off the bat, as the economy is soft there just like it is in most places, now. When in high school I was competing against folks in their 20's, 30's, 40's, and beyond for low-level positions at the local supermarket, and that was 20 years ago.

Quote:
-Yes, the war zone. Politely retitled recently as the "International District".
Many Sun Belt metros and small cities have major crime issues. In SC it's Columbia, parts of Charleston, and some of the smaller cities. Driving across the state I always have a gun in my vehicle, just in case something out of the ordinary happens in a not-so-safe area. I state this to illustrate that these issues are not regional in nature, generally, however in Upstate, NY, you don't have to spend too much money on housing to be in a safe area, if you catch my drift. Same for the Upper Midwest. One could buy, say, an $80K Cape Cod house in Greece, Irondequoit, Gates, etc., and never have the problems you've described. Just be prepared for the tax bill and high utilities costs.

Parts of the Sun Belt have major crime issues, and I'd argue part of the problem is the illegals. It was worse when we first moved here (we started out in Columbia) but it's still a major problem in some parts of the South. Drugs (meth and crack, mostly) are a major part of the equation, too.

Quote:
- It's UGLY. There's trash everywhere even in nicer neighborhoods.
Columbia, SC is like that. Imagine plunking down $200K+ in a decent-to-nice area and having trash all over the place, crack heads at the corner store, having to watch your back at the ATM, etc.

Quote:
-We can't drink our water. We pour it from the tap and it comes out cloudy. It tastes metallic and smells of sulfur. Yeah, it's within the requirements, but I think someone's lying.
I'll give Upstate, NY, that, the water coming out of the tap is great, generally. Lots of Sun Belt cities lack in infrastructure and good, clean municipal water. In Columbia we drank bottled water at home.

Several regions within the Sun Belt do not have enough in natural, fresh water lakes, in fact here we have reservoirs that the locals refer to as "lakes".

Quote:
-The education is terrible. Just horrid. People here don't know the very basics of math and English. A friend I graduated with is taking a class in college and is just learning what pronouns are. I was in advanced classes in high school, and they covered the stuff that college considers elementary education.
While I think public education has declined in a lot of the country, and in some cases not (ahem) advanced, I understand where you're coming from. Mind you, I worked around people in Rochester who were a burden due to their lack of skills, but down here we have a difficult time finding folks who can do/understand basic geometry and trig. It's frustrating, really, so we often times seek Northerners for positions at the company. Bragging about a 2 year degree from a local school down here is not the way to go, IMHO, in fact as far as I'm concerned folks who went to the lesser public schools here learn in college what they should have learned in high school. I'm sure other parts of the country have similar issues, which is partly why transplants with good heads on their shoulders can often times "make it".

Quote:
-Medicine is terrible, doctors are specifically either out of touch or just not interested, prenatal care is terrible (trust me, I refuse to have another child in this state).
NM is generally poor, from what I gather, so that has something to do with it. One place we considered before leaving Rochester is Tucson, AZ. Glad we didn't even bother lining up interviews out there 'cause once we did some research we found out the health care is horrid due to all the illegals. They had to shut down the city's Level 1 trauma center because of all the illegals.

Rochester has one of the best health systems in the country, hands-down, although health care is expensive there. Having had a cancer scare several years ago I can assure you the more acute and intensive care is top-notch.

Quote:
-The public assistance here is horrid. It helps noone. Nobody here does anything except by the numbers. Not a personal situation, but something I've noticed that bothers me. They don't use cash diversion programs really at all. They'd rather give you a few dollars starting next month, when you've already lost your job. It's totally silly.
Not sure where you're going with that, but, I guess you could say there's a huge "public assistance" system in place in NY.

Quote:
-The culture here is fake. There's one street with "cultural" spots, and they're pretty bare except for the hipsters who want to say they're cultured. College kids that "grow out of it" as soon as they've got something better to do.
I pictured that city being like that, and you've now confirmed it. Plenty of hipsters and trust fund kids in Rochester, however they're the exception to the rule and it's easy to avoid them. You'd find more in Ithaca. Sounds to me like your city is one of those "cool" places for a certain segment of society, but they don't care to be productive and/or move on/up with their lives.

<rant on>

Rochester has some "malaise" due to the drop in population amongst 25-44 year old's, so there's a certain smug attitude some there have due to the fact they're firmly ensconced in jobs people in other places would laugh at/wouldn't consider doing at a certain age, but, again, there are ways to avoid such folks. In Rochester it's common to hear stories of folks going to work at a place because they knew somebody, rather than what skills set and education they were bringing to the table. There's a certain "comfortable set" within the local population whom are pretty smug, in that regard, and when the chips are down they're not fun to be around because they can't handle any kind of stress. I've seen it on the job and outside of work, there.

Usually it's the same MO's, son/daughter got kicked out of the house between the ages of 26 and 32, after having gone to a soft state or even private school for "college". Daddy or some other family member gets son/daughter a job at a local company, anyway, because they feel sorry for them or perhaps they realize they didn't raise their kid(s) right to begin with. Said child continues to act like a child, with the usual entitlement attitudes typical of so many within my generation and the next coming up. Baby boomer daddy and mommy keep supporting their offspring and dispensing "advice", despite the fact son/daughter has high car payments, full coverage auto insurance, student loan debt, high rent costs out in any number of higher-rent parts of the county, and other issues beyond the scope of this post. Said kid(s) end up in a cycle of "move out, move back in" with mommy and daddy, or just mommy, until finally they get married at the age of 35 or so.

Not so in other parts of the country.

Going the other way, you have "I got laid off from Kodak/Xerox/etc. and my brother in law got me a supervisor/manager/plant manager position at any number of local contract manufacturers, I don't have even a certificate in anything (or I got my generic business degree in 1959), I don't have any job skills or even social skills, but, dang it, I'm on top of the world, and large and in charge!!!", type people, too. That's another clueless class of people there I could care less about trying to sponge off of and hope they leave the workforce, post-haste, for the betterment of that area and the rest of American society. I can't imagine their offspring are much to write home about, either.

<rant off>

Quote:
-It's hot, swamp coolers stink, and ugly dirty men without their shirts or teeth **** me off. Especially when they ask me in no uncertain terms if I'm available for the night.
Sounds like you're in Sec. 8 housing.

Quote:
-There's 2 degrees of separation with anyone I meet. It's getting annoying and I'd like to meet new people that don't know anyone I know already.
*snort*

Heh, if you hang out in Rochester long enough you'll find there are maybe 2.5 degrees of separation, whether you like it or not. Buffalo? 1.5 degrees. Not sure about Syracuse.

I had a woman outside Columbia, SC (small business owner) ask me which high school in Rochester I graduated from, as she and her husband are from there, originally. Even more interesting is that she made a phone call to some flunky relative of hers on the west side who went to the same HS, and asked her if she knew me. All while we were eating dinner at their restaurant which was recommended to us by another ex-pat. I guess if there's a Rochester Rude, that's it, and apparently some people don't leave that weirdness behind when they relocate. I came close to turning on my "Rochester A-hole" for the first time in quite some time, but I let it go. I could give a rat's a__ about high school, really, but many around there seem to thrive on their high school memories for some odd reason.

There's a certain clinginess to that which I find disconcerting. Plus you have the smug "You grew up WHERE?!?" BS you have to put up with around certain folks who have no social skills, but love to tell you about how great their town/HS/etc. was growing up, which is funny because many who grew up in those towns can't afford to live in them due to the high property taxes.

People in Rochester love to "name-drop", too, which I found peculiar as I got older. Also, if you "don't know" somebody (could be anybody), people might call you out on it, even in a public place, as if you're supposed to "know" these things. There's a certain co-dependency amongst many who live in parts of NY State, and many don't realize it because they're so used to living like that, as people often times have to resort to doing things/leaning on people to get by in life due to the high taxes and lack of job opportunities (generally). Personally, as I got older I knew enough to fly under the radar, there, and associate with as many down-to-Earth people as is possible in Rochester, NY. Sure, we helped each other out when needed, but there wasn't a co-dependent one in our group. Contrast that with "Weirdo flipping out on me as I'm trying to help him with his car issue" situations when I worked in retail, there, cases where in other places somebody would be calling 911 or reaching for a shotgun.

You spend well within your means, work hard, gain some skills, go to school, and some good stuff could very well come your way in Rochester.

Quote:
This is NOT the place for me. I'm a work at home mom and wife. I'm in the Honors program in school. I dream of a proper local market and being close to Broadway,
Rochester is about 6.5 hours' drive from Broadway, on a good day.

Quote:
The people here that I can identify with are so stuck up I don't want to. There's this air of authority and entitlement here. So please tell me that the good scores for schools I've seen, the boasts of good medical care, the nice people I've heard of, and the gorgeous neighborhoods with markets and reasonable housing prices are true!!!
Depends on what you're willing to put up with, as there's plenty to put up with in Upstate, NY. Entitlement? Plenty of that attitude around Rochester, and it cuts across classes, parts of town, etc. You have the former Delco folks who never saved a dime despite making wages more than double that of people in local manufacturing, but whom are now on Medicaid/welfare, then you've got the "I have a master's in education/special ed., therefore I am", people (amongst many other entitlement types), and a lot of those folks are out of work these days due to Upstate's exodus of young, child-bearing age people, which has resulted in major layoffs in the public school systems and a lack of teaching positions. I guess what I'm driving at is there are plenty of down-to-Earth folks anywhere you go, certainly in Rochester, but you have to be careful sometimes there and kinda "feel" things out.

I guess what I'm driving at with that last part is find folks like yourselves (transplants), and find locals you can trust and perhaps become buddies or friends with.

Quote:
I'm in love with the 19th ward, by the way It looks like the one part of this city I like, but it's everywhere!
Not 100% sure where you're going with that, but, I wouldn't recommend the 19th Ward for a family, due to the horrid schools in the city and the public safety issues in that part of town. There are plenty of threads on here re: city neighborhoods, to include the 19th Ward. There are very few truly safe areas of the city to live in, anymore, but once you get outside the city limits public safety is close to a non-issue, in most areas of Monroe County, when running errands, driving around, public parks, etc.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:11 PM
 
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Wow, thanks for such a wonderful reply!!

1. It's not an impulse move, we've been trying to decide on where to move to since '08 and started thinking about NY in general last year. It's still going to be a couple years and we're going to go up there first for a small "vacation" to learn our way around a little and get an idea of how things work. And just in case we hate it, we're going to have enough money saved to ship ourselves back here.

2. As far as work, I work from home so my job will come with me. I'm also starting a web-based business reselling. I have a lot of extra time on my hands, so hopefully I can use that to socialize a bit. I do worry about what people will think when they see us... my husband is a grungy, hairy, hispanic man and I'm a little blonde girl, so when we go out I'm in a dress with my hair in an elaborate 'do, and he's in torn jeans and a t-shirt. That doesn't matter here, but "stuck up" primped and pressed types might turn a nose. Whatever, I don't need that as a friend anyway, but it might make things more slow-going.

3. Not in Sec. 8 housing. I wish. The section 8 housing only takes 30% of whatever income you make and it's nice places. Most of the major apartment complexes in town accept sec 8.

4. I'm sure anywhere you go, when you've been there long enough you start to know everyone. I'm a bit blunt and snarky, so I'll be quick to just tell the people who freak if I don't know someone to push off. It sounds very co-dependent though, so we might be a bit shocking. I generally get a lot of crap for being so independent as it is... it's weird how that works. Because I quit smoking cold-turkey, have a backup income source just in case things go wrong, and actually plan for my future, people go to accusing me of lying and saying I must be on assistance or something... and it's like they're covering for the fact that they don't want to put in as much work as I do. It's not a bragging thing, more of a "you could do it if you wanted to" thing, and people don't like hearing that.

5. Cheap houses in low-crime areas, good healthcare, and good tap water. Awesome.

6. The public assistance was just the government - they'd rather you stay poor forever. The homeless shelters turn people away every night, and a lot of the homeless are on assistance and get enough cash to live. They just choose not to because taking advantage of the system is better. They have a bed, gas, electricity, a shower every day, free laundry, hundreds of dollars for food a month on top of 5 free meals a day, and then their SSI or GA that they can spend on whatever they want. It doesn't benefit you to get off of assistance here, or to move up in life. I've seen so many people in their early 20s turn down good jobs because their overall income would drop when they cut the assistance, because the jobs don't pay well enough. But the assistance still isn't enough to get you over the poverty level. And you don't benefit from being an honest person. If you lie, you'll get more money because they won't check. Families who really need help *right now* to fix their car so they can keep their job, turn into families who are dependent on the system 5 years in the future because the assistance was $300 a month starting next month. Contrarily, if you get a friend to answer the phone and say you're employing him and just waiting on a contract to give him, that counts as employed and they'll give you $600 a month as long as you go once a month to do the paperwork. It pays to lie and be lazy here.

7. Yeah, lots of permanent college "kids" here. People going to school to be a Jeopardy contestant or something. As long as mom and dad keep paying for it, or as long as their grant/scholarship holds out, they'll take classes in botany and art history.

8. 6.5 hours is nothing for me. That's a possible driving weekend trip. It's possible to leave on a Friday morning and see a show Friday night, and drive back Saturday and be home Saturday night. I've taken much longer road trips, since if it's not here it's at least that far away in any direction.

9. As far as 19th Ward, I did some reading and found that though it's so much better than here, it's still a less good part of town. I just hadn't even thought about the idea before. It looks so nice. For contrast, here's my neighborhood (which is considered an okay part of town with one of the better elementary schools) and some of the prime real estate. The pic on the bottom is the cheapest stand-alone house available in the Albuquerque area according to Zillow. It's $60k and a "handyman special". Sometimes, real estate pics have trash in them, or people chilling out on the couch. It's kind of funny. So I guess I need to check out other neighborhoods since it seems to matter so much there. I never thought a place that looked so nice could be the dodgy part of town.



ETA: The pic doesn't show up very big... but there's trash in the parking lot and on the street, and the handyman special house has the windows broken and screwed up blinds behind it. There's junk on the side of the house, too. Like they couldn't have the sense to take the blinds down or move the junk to the back of the house long enough to take a pic. Also, note the lack of clouds or snow or grass.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:47 PM
 
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6.5 hours to NYC?

For the OP, perhaps neighborhoods like Swillburg, Ellwanger-Berry(aka Highland Park) and maybe Charlotte for urban neighborhoods. You have to think about going private or with a good charter school though. For suburbs, parts of Greece, Irondequoit, Chili, Gates, the Brockport area and the occasional home in your price range in other suburbs.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:50 PM
 
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Thanks, ckhthankgod! I'll check those out
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:00 PM
 
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First things first; though the economy here is better than it is in many other areas of the country right now....it is very very important to have a job lined up before moving. I would not move here (or really, anywhere) without a job.

I have no idea what the COL is like in Albuquerque but Rochester is generally considered to be a low COL area. You can still find decent starter homes in some of the inner ring suburbs and a few of the decent city neighborhoods for under $100k. As others have mentioned, our property taxes here are pretty high. A house that cost $100k could have property taxes of near $4000 a year in many areas so just be aware of that.

You said you have young children so though there are some very nice and affordable city neighborhoods that a young family could do well in, the schools that they are assigned to are generally very poor; especially compared to the suburban school districts; several of which are nationally ranked.

I think you would do just fine here if you or your spouse already have employment lined up before you move and if you think the lifestyle here is one that would suit you better. Definitely come and visit first to get a feel for what areas you think would be a good fit. Good luck!
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:38 PM
 
28 posts, read 33,568 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'minformed2 View Post
First things first; though the economy here is better than it is in many other areas of the country right now....it is very very important to have a job lined up before moving. I would not move here (or really, anywhere) without a job.
Thanks! Yeah, I am contracted to work from home and can take it with me anywhere in the US, I just need to update my address with them.
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:15 PM
 
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Also, are there any other things you are looking for in particular in terms of the arts, stores, cultural events, educational opportunities on a higher level or other interests?
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:32 PM
 
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Nothing in particular. I'd like to have a bit more diversity in music (it's mostly hard rock or a local samba-ish acoustic deal), maybe a little more in the way of art older than 2 years, I love neat little shops, thrift stores, etc., and am constantly disappointed at the lack of actual culture in the cultural events here. If there's culture, it's Hispanic, and that's cool, but they forget that not everyone there is Hispanic. The biggest parade we have all year is the Pride parade and if you're straight and not in it, you're the enemy. Other parades... well, what other parades?

UNM isn't as great as people here want to think it is. I like the idea of getting my MBA from a respectable program. I'd also like a reasonable music program as I want to go back for music (and maybe privately tutor music later). And I like the idea for my kids of how there seem to be some high schools in NY more dedicated to specific pursuits. We have one or two of those but very few people know about them, really.
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