Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
PA people are the same so I guess that's why I find everyone to be just fine
skbs - now that's a combo I'm going to get the boys jackets - two of them like to go on wee wee pads when it's cold/raining but the other two are too dignified for that. I guess I'll be shoveling little pathways
The "new yorkers are rude" stereotype is mostly applied to people in the NYC/Westchester/LI region. We upstaters are mostly known for being more down to earth and hearty people. We also don't have that annoying accent and can pronounce our R's! (though we do sound very nasaly at times!)
The concept of rudeness can be interpreted in different ways, and the perception of rudeness is subjective. The question to ask is: "When I consider someone rude, what behaviors am I noticing that influence that perception?"
From a Linguistics perspective, these are the verbal behaviors I have noticed, which could contribute to someone being perceived as rude:
- Interruptions: there is a "turn taking" system in each cultural group. Sometimes, you know it's your turn to say something because of a pause or silence (....), or because the other person ended a sentece in a certain way (e.g., "Yeah, that was it..."), or a certain intonation, etc. In a lot of my interactions here, I still don't see the "turn taking" signal: people just interrupt me with a digression, or a comment that opposes what I'm saying (even though I haven't finished my idea), which basically is interpreted as "I don't care what you want to say, I only care about what *I* want to say". It may be ok if you are with your close friend and you both overlap constantly and talk at the same time, but it may be interpreted as rude if you do it during a PTA meeting.
- Dismissals: I have found this one many times, and it consists of someone starting their responses with "No, that's not true" when you are talking about your experiences. For instance, you go to Ellison Park and you say "I felt that the slopes were too fast for me" and your interlocutor says "That's not true, they are fine". Get the idea? Your interlocutor cannot tell you that what you feel is not true: you are entitled to feel any way you want. At most, your interlocutor could say "Really? I always felt they were fine". Big difference there. Again, the first response, "Not true", when used over and over again with the same person, eventually creates a perception that "...this person is so rude, how dare he/she dismiss my opinion/assessment and tell me my opinions/assessments are not right? They are just as valid as anyone else's opinion/assessment".
Anyway, just some thoughts on why or how people may perceived rudeness...
Hi,
We just moved to Rochester from PA as well (about 30 miles west of Phila). I just found this web site so I thought I'd post. So far, so good. We bought a great old house in the Park Avenue area. My husband and I love city living and had missed being able to walk to places during the 12.5 years we lived in the suburbs of Phila. The kids, 17 and 11, (with a 20 yr old away at college in Pittsburgh), love that aspect as well-especially during move-in week when we were out to dinner at Jines, Charlie's Frog Pond and some of the other great eateries here, until we found the pots and pans and got the kitchen set up. The schools are a bit of a problem, the kids are a little shell shocked over some of the behaviors they've observed, but we're working on alternatives and keeping a positive attitude. Luckily they have a break next week so we're going to try to get to some of the museums on East. Folks have been very friendly and helpful. And the weather isn't nearly as bad as we'd been lead to believe. Although cold, it stayed clear while the moving van was unloading and this last week has been spring-like-I figure that's because I just paid a guy to plow our drive for the rest of the season LOL. Next up is finding a job for me-luckily I qualified to take a voluntary severence package from my last job, which I took after my husband was told about the transfer. I'll keep you posted if your interested.
The Park avenue area is amazing, I love the old houses there and want to own one some day you are so lucky! As far as schools go, yes that is definitely the biggest drawback of living in Park Ave or anywhere in the city if you have kids which is why we are holding off on owning one of those amazing old houses in the city until the kids are all out of school and staying put in the 'burbs until then!
Thanks for replying. Yes we fell in love with one of those big old houses so we bought it. We adopted our two youngest and they have some learning differences and we'd been told that city schools are usually better at dealing with that, now we're thinking that even if they are, the culture shock issues might be too big a trade off. We had looked at Pittsford and Brighton, but the taxes seemed much higher and because our children are African American and we're white, we saw this as an opportunity to get them in a more racially diverse community. My son was saying though that even though he grew up with a white family in a predominantly white community, he knows more about African American history than his classmates at Edison. We're hoping the school situation will sort out soon and we are seeing some positive signs. My daughter is a very good artist, and even though the deadline had passed SOTA agreed to allow her to apply. She has here 'audition' for the visual arts program on March 21 and she's already working on her portfolio. If she doesn't make it then we'll be requesting that she be referred to the Norman Howard School at her CSE meeting. We had thought she'd be in School 23 here, which I'm told is one of the better city schools, but they said because we were here mid year there were no places for her there that could address her learning disability so they put her in an 'integrated' class in School 36. The first day she had her lunch stolen and the next day she witnessed a fist fight between a boy and girl in the lunch room. She says even the 'nice' kids curse all the time. My son was in a really good vocational program in PA, so they put him in Edison Engineering here-but he hates it and says that in addition to the fighting and constant class disruptions-the program isn't anywhere near what he was doing in PA. Luckily the school social worker has taken him under his wing and is helping us find other options so we know what to ask for at his CSE meeting. We still love the house and the area though, and once we get the school issues resolved we'll have no regrets.
The Park avenue area is amazing, I love the old houses there and want to own one some day you are so lucky! As far as schools go, yes that is definitely the biggest drawback of living in Park Ave or anywhere in the city if you have kids which is why we are holding off on owning one of those amazing old houses in the city until the kids are all out of school and staying put in the 'burbs until then!
Aren't the schools zoned for that areas the best in the city though? That might not mean much, but it seems like the schools are at least good enough to get a good education there. I know it is tough to hope that your child can get into School of the Arts too.
Thanks for replying. Yes we fell in love with one of those big old houses so we bought it. We adopted our two youngest and they have some learning differences and we'd been told that city schools are usually better at dealing with that, now we're thinking that even if they are, the culture shock issues might be too big a trade off. We had looked at Pittsford and Brighton, but the taxes seemed much higher and because our children are African American and we're white, we saw this as an opportunity to get them in a more racially diverse community. My son was saying though that even though he grew up with a white family in a predominantly white community, he knows more about African American history than his classmates at Edison. We're hoping the school situation will sort out soon and we are seeing some positive signs. My daughter is a very good artist, and even though the deadline had passed SOTA agreed to allow her to apply. She has here 'audition' for the visual arts program on March 21 and she's already working on her portfolio. If she doesn't make it then we'll be requesting that she be referred to the Norman Howard School at her CSE meeting. We had thought she'd be in School 23 here, which I'm told is one of the better city schools, but they said because we were here mid year there were no places for her there that could address her learning disability so they put her in an 'integrated' class in School 36. The first day she had her lunch stolen and the next day she witnessed a fist fight between a boy and girl in the lunch room. She says even the 'nice' kids curse all the time. My son was in a really good vocational program in PA, so they put him in Edison Engineering here-but he hates it and says that in addition to the fighting and constant class disruptions-the program isn't anywhere near what he was doing in PA. Luckily the school social worker has taken him under his wing and is helping us find other options so we know what to ask for at his CSE meeting. We still love the house and the area though, and once we get the school issues resolved we'll have no regrets.
If I was you, I would have looked at districts like Gates-Chili or Rush-Henrietta. Both are still good and have decent African American student populations, with Gates-chili at 14% and Rush-Henrietta at 15%. East Irondequoit, which has more of a so-so rep. in terms of suburban schools is about 18% Black and about 10% Hispanic. Greece might be another option, as well as the West Irondequoit schools. All are relatively diverse for suburban schools in that area and are generally good districts. Here's some information to show what I'm talking about:https://www.nystart.gov/publicweb/County.do?year=2007&county=Monroe (broken link)
Thanks for replying. Yes we fell in love with one of those big old houses so we bought it. We adopted our two youngest and they have some learning differences and we'd been told that city schools are usually better at dealing with that, now we're thinking that even if they are, the culture shock issues might be too big a trade off. We had looked at Pittsford and Brighton, but the taxes seemed much higher and because our children are African American and we're white, we saw this as an opportunity to get them in a more racially diverse community. My son was saying though that even though he grew up with a white family in a predominantly white community, he knows more about African American history than his classmates at Edison. We're hoping the school situation will sort out soon and we are seeing some positive signs. My daughter is a very good artist, and even though the deadline had passed SOTA agreed to allow her to apply. She has here 'audition' for the visual arts program on March 21 and she's already working on her portfolio. If she doesn't make it then we'll be requesting that she be referred to the Norman Howard School at her CSE meeting. We had thought she'd be in School 23 here, which I'm told is one of the better city schools, but they said because we were here mid year there were no places for her there that could address her learning disability so they put her in an 'integrated' class in School 36. The first day she had her lunch stolen and the next day she witnessed a fist fight between a boy and girl in the lunch room. She says even the 'nice' kids curse all the time. My son was in a really good vocational program in PA, so they put him in Edison Engineering here-but he hates it and says that in addition to the fighting and constant class disruptions-the program isn't anywhere near what he was doing in PA. Luckily the school social worker has taken him under his wing and is helping us find other options so we know what to ask for at his CSE meeting. We still love the house and the area though, and once we get the school issues resolved we'll have no regrets.
Wow Edison... My husband did his student teaching there and he never ended up teaching I can see why you want to get the kids out. He was totally turned off of teaching from that experience. Norman Howard is great. I actually did some training through them for the Wilson Reading Program when I was teaching... it is a wonderful school. I wish you luck and hope you can get him in..... they have wonderful programs!!!!
Hi,
We just moved to Rochester from PA as well (about 30 miles west of Phila). I just found this web site so I thought I'd post. So far, so good. We bought a great old house in the Park Avenue area. My husband and I love city living and had missed being able to walk to places during the 12.5 years we lived in the suburbs of Phila. The kids, 17 and 11, (with a 20 yr old away at college in Pittsburgh), love that aspect as well-especially during move-in week when we were out to dinner at Jines, Charlie's Frog Pond and some of the other great eateries here, until we found the pots and pans and got the kitchen set up. The schools are a bit of a problem, the kids are a little shell shocked over some of the behaviors they've observed, but we're working on alternatives and keeping a positive attitude. Luckily they have a break next week so we're going to try to get to some of the museums on East. Folks have been very friendly and helpful. And the weather isn't nearly as bad as we'd been lead to believe. Although cold, it stayed clear while the moving van was unloading and this last week has been spring-like-I figure that's because I just paid a guy to plow our drive for the rest of the season LOL. Next up is finding a job for me-luckily I qualified to take a voluntary severence package from my last job, which I took after my husband was told about the transfer. I'll keep you posted if your interested.
Pamellon,
We are originally from Rochester,we have lived away for a very long time at this point though.. we have lived in the mid-atlantic area (near DC) for most of our time away (about 13 years) and have just recently been relocated to Berks County,PA. Not to far from the Philly area. Really nice suburb we live in, but have to ask you a question... we are finding people extremely stand-offish here... It always amazes me when people talk about that NY attitude and although I do realize that for the most part that "they" are referring to the NYC area and suburbs (although,I even disagree with that!) that as much as we have lived away from home,from NJ ,MD,PA & VA, that we have never found any friendlier people than the ones in Rochester!
Just wondering your take on the Eastern PA area being open to transients?
I have posted on the PA boards and moving boards about this same suject but thought it would be interesting to get someone's point of view who has lived in Eastern PA and been to Rochester....
Thanks & Congratulations on your new home there!
Park Ave is wonderful and we have been trying to come home for many years now, just nothing for my husband here.
Dear NYMD,
Having lived in Eastern PA, Ireland, Colorado and South Jersey, I have to agree with you that Rochester folks are the friendliest-so far (I'm only into my 3rd week here). I did however make great friends in all those other places. I'm not sure where you are in Berks, but it's overall a very rural area and in my experience, very few of the residents there go into the city much, if at all. And there is some truth to the stereotype that rural people tend to take longer to warm up to new comers, but they will warm up. If you have children, that is one of the easiest ways of making new friends. My best friend in Malvern is the mother of my oldest daughter's friend-in fact, she and I became better friends then our daughters. Another good friend is the mother of my youngest daughter's best friend. Although I should mention that she is originally from the Buffalo area, and when I told her we were moving to Rochester she gave me a list of people to contact. So if you have children, get to know their friends' parents. Once my youngest got involved in basketball we had a large social network built around the team parents and the local athelitic club. Another great way to make friends is by joining clubs you are interested in. I'm a knitter and although I prefer to knit alone, I looked for a knitting circle when I first moved to Malvern. I also worked outside the home, but I found that it took longer to find real friendship with my co-workers, athough eventually I did. I think that's because we were all so busy juggling the working mom thing that they tended to be more cautious about who they wanted to spend free time with. I guess the big difference is you have to make more of an effort in the beginning stages but it will thaw. Best of luck.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Rudeness
I can see why you want to get the kids out. He was totally turned off of teaching from that experience. Norman Howard is great. I actually did some training through them for the Wilson Reading Program when I was teaching... it is a wonderful school. I wish you luck and hope you can get him in..... they have wonderful programs!!!!
