Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > Sacramento
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-24-2013, 06:05 PM
 
137 posts, read 343,646 times
Reputation: 146

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
The specific meaning of welfare includes Social Security (all of it), Pell Grant, EITC, Section 8, SNAP, TANF. Basically the laundry list.
As with so many words, there is more than one specific meaning of "welfare." Language evolves and changes over time. The way I see it, the "correct" way to use it is whichever way best communicates your message. Otherwise we're just going in circles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-24-2013, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
189 posts, read 296,721 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by SacramentoBound View Post
As with so many words, there is more than one specific meaning of "welfare." Language evolves and changes over time. The way I see it, the "correct" way to use it is whichever way best communicates your message. Otherwise we're just going in circles.
Yes, and in the context of this thread (Shabby Suburbs of Sacramento) the presence or absence of "welfare moochers" (along with gang-bangers and wannabes) can either add or subtract from the how nice a place is to live. So i would say that for our purposes, a "Welfare Moocher" is an able-bodied person who doesn't work (except for working the system), most likely a renter, and maybe involved with some illegal or illicit activities in their abundance of free time.
So, if you visit a suburb that seems to have a significant percentage of these types hanging around (or signs of their presence), this would most likely detract from that city's desirability. Conversely, if you drive to another suburb, and note the absence of these types of individuals, then this might enhance that city's reputation and quality of life.
P.S. i do like the discussion who benefits from different tax policies, but there's no point in watering down the definition of welfare moocher in terms of what makes different suburbs shabbier than others . . .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2013, 10:41 PM
 
8,680 posts, read 17,197,096 times
Reputation: 4685
Except that isn't Malloric's definition of a "welfare moocher." His definition includes people who have jobs, but who live in housing with maximum rent amounts that are affordable to people who make 80% of area median income, which is about $40,000 per year. Of course, by that standard, the definition includes anyone getting any tax subsidy for anything, which is everyone. Especially people who use public highways, because it's completely irrelevant how much gas tax or whatever goes to roads vs. whatever else, public highways are paid for 100% with tax money. City and county roads are maintained with tax money, so if you use them, you're a moocher.

Incidentally, any housing that is affordable to folks with low incomes (whether or not it is subsidized) is considered "low-income housing" by definition, but because it's also a dog-whistle for "black neighborhood" all sorts of loaded assumptions come with it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2013, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
189 posts, read 296,721 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Incidentally, any housing that is affordable to folks with low incomes (whether or not it is subsidized) is considered "low-income housing" by definition, but because it's also a dog-whistle for "black neighborhood" all sorts of loaded assumptions come with it.
I would hazard to guess that there are also a lot of white people on Section 8 housing vouchers, and that with most housing that accepts Section 8, the other units in the building would also tend to become low-rent as well, even for those working folks who are not subsidized. Interesting to find out here that these vouchers (maximum value = $2,200) can also be applied to the purchase of a home:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2013, 07:49 PM
 
8,680 posts, read 17,197,096 times
Reputation: 4685
He isn't talking about people with Housing Choice Vouchers (they stopped calling it Section 8 a decade or so ago.) He's talking about people who live in apartments that are subsidized by other means, but the people who live there are "low income" or "very low income" meaning people making $30-40,000 a year, which doesn't mean people on welfare or people who can get Housing Choice Vouchers.

HCV maximum rent amounts are based on area median incomes and rents--the higher the cost of living, the higher the maximum rent amount the landlord can charge with an HCV, and vice versa. Typically the maximum rent amount they can charge is pretty low, compared to area median rents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
189 posts, read 296,721 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
He isn't talking about people with Housing Choice Vouchers (they stopped calling it Section 8 a decade or so ago.) He's talking about people who live in apartments that are subsidized by other means, but the people who live there are "low income" or "very low income" meaning people making $30-40,000 a year, which doesn't mean people on welfare or people who can get Housing Choice Vouchers.

HCV maximum rent amounts are based on area median incomes and rents--the higher the cost of living, the higher the maximum rent amount the landlord can charge with an HCV, and vice versa. Typically the maximum rent amount they can charge is pretty low, compared to area median rents.
Actually, i was replying to your comment about "low income housing" also being a code word for a black neighborhood. According to this data, Non-hispanic Whites had the largest number (not percentage) of the Housing Choice Voucher recipients in Sacramento: (scroll to table 5.8)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/hpd/hrc/rep/fe...oucher0912.pdf

It is also interesting to note that 6% of the California's HCV "moochers" are in the Sacramento area, while nearly 50% of HCV recipients are in the L.A. area (page 6):

So i'm not sure that Bluevelo has any real reason to complain about "welfare moochers" in Sacramento . . .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2013, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Go West young man...
409 posts, read 953,001 times
Reputation: 325
Good to see confidence in the local/ regional housing market rebounding...

Planning for big development in Rancho Cordova with lot purchase - Sacramento Business Journal

Although building continued in the newer areas of Rancho it was until recently steady but slow...Woodside Homes (Bella Brisas) has been building in the area for a few years even they were taken off guard by the demand for new housing...

Builders Race to Keep Up With Surging U.S. Home Demand - Bloomberg
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2013, 05:42 PM
 
2,963 posts, read 6,237,252 times
Reputation: 1576
Quote:
Originally Posted by u225615 View Post
Good to see confidence in the local/ regional housing market rebounding...

Planning for big development in Rancho Cordova with lot purchase - Sacramento Business Journal

Although building continued in the newer areas of Rancho it was until recently steady but slow...Woodside Homes (Bella Brisas) has been building in the area for a few years even they were taken off guard by the demand for new housing...

Builders Race to Keep Up With Surging U.S. Home Demand - Bloomberg
Serious what the ****?

Grantline and Douglas? There is no freeways (and never will be), no retail (for at least another 10 years), no jobs (and never will be). How does this garbage even get approved? The county board of supervisors need to be thrown in jail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2013, 07:09 PM
 
290 posts, read 541,746 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
Serious what the ****?

Grantline and Douglas? There is no freeways (and never will be), no retail (for at least another 10 years), no jobs (and never will be). How does this garbage even get approved? The county board of supervisors need to be thrown in jail.
Apparently you aren't familiar with the plans for that area. Folsom is planning development south of 50 as is Rancho Cordova. Then there is the connector. Both Folsom and Rancho are becoming hubs for private business in Sacramento. Both areas are growing. Additionally there is a need to offset traffic from highway 50.

Capital Southeast Connector
The Project

http://www.connectorjpa.net/map/

Last edited by webdev; 07-26-2013 at 07:23 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2013, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
189 posts, read 296,721 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
Serious what the ****?

Grantline and Douglas? There is no freeways (and never will be), no retail (for at least another 10 years), no jobs (and never will be). How does this garbage even get approved? The county board of supervisors need to be thrown in jail.
They said essentially the same things about the purchase of Alaska from the Russians:

Seward's Folly — History.com This Day in History — 3/30/1867
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > Sacramento
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top