Shooting in old-town last night (Stockton: live in, business, county)

[JGC97]

Thank you ryuns. I wasn't offended. Like you, I don't like discussing the subject online either and for the very same reason. People misinterpret something you say and it ends up in a heated battle. However, no one will ever confuse my comments regarding someone carrying a concealed weapon to a celebration. There is no reason for it, period. Further, it leads me to believe that the person with the weapon is anticipating a problem which also puts into question their mental stability. (if that makes any sense at all )

[bluevelo]

Californians voted to keep the death penalty... of course, its not being carried out, but I think that if we had the courage to actually carry it out - and to expand it to circumstances such as this where there is clearly a shooter, tons of witnesses, no doubts at all - if we want to crack down on gun violence, the death penalty should be automatic for any gun crime that ends in murder... and no endless appeals - a little over a 100 or so years ago, this guy would be hanging at dawn shortly after killing innocent people like this.

We should not be afraid to go to public celebrations, have to frisk people down, etc. because of what was probably a snot butt gangbanger killing two. Swift and severe punishment is a far better deterrent than locking people up.

[jbmcd]

Originally Posted by bluevelo

Californians voted to keep the death penalty... of course, its not being carried out, but I think that if we had the courage to actually carry it out - and to expand it to circumstances such as this where there is clearly a shooter, tons of witnesses, no doubts at all - if we want to crack down on gun violence, the death penalty should be automatic for any gun crime that ends in murder... and no endless appeals - a little over a 100 or so years ago, this guy would be hanging at dawn shortly after killing innocent people like this.

We should not be afraid to go to public celebrations, have to frisk people down, etc. because of what was probably a snot butt gangbanger killing two. Swift and severe punishment is a far better deterrent than locking people up.

I won't get into any other issues, but just out of curiousity, why would the DP be automatic only for a "gun crime" that ends in murder -- why not for the very similar Fabian/Esteban Nunez case a few years ago, which was done with knives? Arguably, that was an even clearer cut case, where the thugs went to get their weapons and came back, implying a much greater premeditation, than this one, where one can argue (I am NOT) that it was in the heat of the moment. And a gangbanger with a knife in a crowd can pull it, stab someone silently, and get away with much less notice. Again, I'm not defending this murderer; the accounts I have heard are that the victim was actually bumped by a woman causing his drink to spill on her, and even after he apologized (for her mistake) she called over friends to start a fight. She should be prosecuted aggressively if that is the case.

I don't own or plan to own a gun, and I'm all for a healthy factual debate on various weapons, deaths (of innocent people), what exactly is self-defense, bar behavior and how to address thugs with hair-trigger tempers. And it is certainly valid to focus on guns as a particular weapon that can in some situations be more destructive than others -- but that are also better than other methods in other situations used responsibly for protection. It just has to be a comprehensive discussion focusing on the best outcome for innocent people in all situations, including both crimes committed and prevented with weapons of all sorts.

[bluevelo]

Originally Posted by jbmcd

I won't get into any other issues, but just out of curiousity, why would the DP be automatic only for a "gun crime" that ends in murder -- why not for the very similar Fabian/Esteban Nunez case a few years ago, which was done with knives? Arguably, that was an even clearer cut case, where the thugs went to get their weapons and came back, implying a much greater premeditation, than this one, where one can argue (I am NOT) that it was in the heat of the moment. And a gangbanger with a knife in a crowd can pull it, stab someone silently, and get away with much less notice. Again, I'm not defending this murderer; the accounts I have heard are that the victim was actually bumped by a woman causing his drink to spill on her, and even after he apologized (for her mistake) she called over friends to start a fight. She should be prosecuted aggressively if that is the case.

I don't own or plan to own a gun, and I'm all for a healthy factual debate on various weapons, deaths (of innocent people), what exactly is self-defense, bar behavior and how to address thugs with hair-trigger tempers. And it is certainly valid to focus on guns as a particular weapon that can in some situations be more destructive than others -- but that are also better than other methods in other situations used responsibly for protection. It just has to be a comprehensive discussion focusing on the best outcome for innocent people in all situations, including both crimes committed and prevented with weapons of all sorts.

I'm for expanding and enforcing the death penalty - period - when murder, especially pre-mediated, or rage related like this one was, is involved. And for getting rid of "humane execution" - hang these fools in public, put it on cable - make the punishment appropriate to fit the brutality of the crime.

[NinaN]

Ron White's opinion...Good Texas Boy


Ron White Texas Death Penalty - YouTube

[ryuns]

I don't really care about the death penalty one way or the other (I don't too tied up in the ethics enough to oppose it, but it's also not particularly effective), but as long as we're quoting comedians (NSFW):

Bill Hicks: "Thou shalt not kill.. *Oh, unless you really want to." - YouTube

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

It's just shameful what's happening in this country. Doesn't seem there is anyplace people can go to enjoy themselves without fear of some nut-job with a gun coming there to hurt others.

Glad that you both stayed away.

I dunno. From my perspective, when it comes to consistent events such as this, this seems more like a California thing. Sacramento, in particular.

[wburg]

Or a New Year's Eve thing. Two people were killed by gunfire in San Francisco the same night, one an adolescent on Fisherman's Wharf. And the shooter had recently moved here from Oakland.

[JGC97]

It's not just California, it happens everywhere in the country. But just maybe it's in the news more because it's California and everyone seems to watch what goes on in California.

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

It's not just California, it happens everywhere in the country. But just maybe it's in the news more because it's California and everyone seems to watch what goes on in California.

Such acts do occur across the U.S., sure. However, the randomness of the act and/or location does not seem to happen nearly as often as it does in California. I'm talking about in a singular location, mind you, not just in general.

I am from Sacramento, so perhaps my view is skewed.

And for the record, the rest of the country is not in love with California as much as California thinks it (they) are.