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Old 08-02-2013, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,669 posts, read 24,814,702 times
Reputation: 18896

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeJeH View Post
Taxes are not being raised for the arena...
Nope.

Just a question of how to plug the hole left by the lost parking revenue that will pay for the arena bonds. That might well be more taxes. But even if it is, technically, they aren't being used for the arena. They're being used to offset the loss of funds used to pay for the arena. Most voters will see right through it which is why there won't be a vote.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:40 PM
 
8,680 posts, read 17,206,810 times
Reputation: 4685
"Taxes are not being raised for the arena" is kind of like saying "Putting an expense on my credit card means I don't have to earn more money to pay for it."
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:17 PM
 
660 posts, read 1,076,934 times
Reputation: 377
No, it isn't. Saying taxes are being raised implies that taxes are being raised! They aren't. Day what you want about bonds but they aren't taxes.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:48 PM
 
8,680 posts, read 17,206,810 times
Reputation: 4685
Well, it's true, taxes aren't being raised now...but it's a fairly safe bet that taxes will have to be raised down the road for money we're spending today, most likely by a future mayor. I don't mind the idea of higher taxes, I just don't like being lied to about it.
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, Placerville
2,511 posts, read 6,269,396 times
Reputation: 2259
Really, it doesn't matter if they are being raised or not. The fact of the matter is the money is being diverted from one or more areas and directed toward something the voters previously said they didn't want to pay for.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, Placerville
2,511 posts, read 6,269,396 times
Reputation: 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
I don't mind the idea of higher taxes, I just don't like being lied to about it.
I mind when it is due to mismanagement of priorities and when it is for subsidizing private business ventures.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,669 posts, read 24,814,702 times
Reputation: 18896
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC6ZLV View Post
I mind when it is due to mismanagement of priorities and when it is for subsidizing private business ventures.
Likewise.

Sacramento has about $2 billion in unfunded long-term liabilities. $700M+ are bonds, so with the new arena that'll just move in the right direction of $1B+. You've also got things like the marina which aren't counted in that because they are a separate enterprise but will likely be included since they are going bankrupt. The other big chunk is unfunded pension liabilities, which is another $900M.

If you're Cejeh, maybe you just think these debts pay themselves. That line of thought didn't work out so well for Vallejo, Stockton, Detroit, Harrisburg etc.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:45 AM
 
8,680 posts, read 17,206,810 times
Reputation: 4685
On the other hand, all of those cities that went bankrupt were able to renegotiate their employee union contracts. Maybe there's a method to the madness here?
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:16 PM
 
2,220 posts, read 2,782,975 times
Reputation: 2716
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Okay then, are you saying that Region Builders and these developers are Republicans, and they are threatening McKeever and Cabaldon because they're Democrats, and in order to get what they want?
How dare the petty bourgeois rise up against the Demunist political commissars. Only the Demunist apparatchik developers get to do what they want with their property.

Last edited by NickB1967; 08-03-2013 at 03:29 PM..
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:26 PM
 
2,220 posts, read 2,782,975 times
Reputation: 2716
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC6ZLV View Post
The reason Fresno has a higher population is that, like most cities, they annex land prior to development, or more specifically, annex land in order to facilitate development, at the favor of developers. Fresno has been very effective at this. Locally, Roseville and Rocklin have done the same thing. Sacramento was made up of many smaller outlying communties that grew over time and coalesced into miles of urban development. People in those areas don't want to be annexed for a variety of reasons. The City eyes Arden-Arcade for the tax revenue and really don't have much to offer the residents of Arden-Arcade in terms of what those residents want, and the residents of Arden-Arcade don't want to pay additional taxes for things the City Council wants, like a sports arena, and they shouldn't have to (neither should the residents within the city limits).
But what makes Sacramento County such an odd duck is that the development was mostly unincorporated county land (a.k.a., the "un-City"), while in every other California county development was mostly, and in some counties entirely, either (1) annexed by an adjacent municipality, or (2) incorporated in itself as a municipality. Why Sacramento City proper didn't do what San Jose, Fresno, and other California cities did from 1945 forward has always puzzled me.

Sacramento County is coming around more recently as Citrus Heights, Elk Grove, and Rancho Cordova have all incorporated, and I do suspect North Highlands and Arden Arcade will one day either see the light and incorporate themselves, or be annexed by the City of Sacramento, if the City of Sacramento can ever decide that the revenue benefits of the additional commerical and industrial regions outweigh the addition of "unprogressive" (sic) people into their city.
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