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Old 10-05-2009, 09:40 PM
Location: Northern California
956 posts, read 1,814,195 times
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i do see a lot of similarities between sac and portland, but sac is 10 years behind portland in urban development. Sac will eventually grow into a hip, cool town like portland.
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:59 AM
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 8,218,171 times
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Originally Posted by pistola916 View Post
i do see a lot of similarities between sac and portland, but sac is 10 years behind portland in urban development. Sac will eventually grow into a hip, cool town like portland.
Portland can keep its hipness, too many gutter punks, teen run aways, and homeless.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:58 AM
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,174 posts, read 89,938,546 times
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wonder where they ended up moving, the thread is 2 years old.

For me, I would take Sac but we all have our preferences. I have always loved Sac. I know, lots of people think all it has to offer is that it is 1/2 way between the bay area and Tahoe: That is one thing I like about it. Plus, it is certainly not as you have said, punk like Portland. It is more like a small town, a bit conservative, lots of nice burbs and a lovely tree lined downtown area with a beautiful capitol building.

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Old 10-06-2009, 10:11 AM
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Speaking as someone who moved to Sacramento to be part of the punk scene 16 years ago, I'd be a bit resistant to that assumption. I'd agree that Portland's is more prominent (one way it was described to me was that Portland was kind of like what Sacramento would be if about half the city was Midtown) but ours is there--punk scenes tend to be borne out of bored suburban kids looking for something angry to do, and ours was no exception. To some extent punks funneled from Sacramento to San Francisco and the East Bay, but in some ways the communication was two-way, and Sacto punx encouraged Bay Area bands to take the trip up 80 to play here in Sacramento.

Few would claim that Los Angeles doesn't have massive expanses of suburban wasteland, but LA and Orange County produced a huge punk scene, again, populated mostly by kids from the suburbs who, lacking an identity where they lived, made their own.

Hipness is not a stage in cities' development, it is more a matter of passing fashion.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:07 AM
18 posts, read 48,936 times
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Sacramento!! Its nice there but if you dont like hot summers you should'nt live there but the smmers nights are very pleasent. Its usally very Sunny and Dry but you might get few monsoon clouds at times escailly in August and September. Winters are cool to at times cold and rainy and foggy. Spring and Autumn are very nice with rain at times but not as much as winter and there isnt much fog either. Its can be windy at times. If like cloudy weather go live Portland. It pretty much rain there from Nov-May and usally cloudy.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:03 PM
Location: Napa, CA
151 posts, read 366,390 times
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I lived in Sacramento for a year, and have visited Portland several times but never lived there (though I did live in Seattle for two and have had a lot of conversations with folks about the similarities between the two).

I'm going to answer your question in a novel way--by inflating all the negative stereotypes of both cities so you can get a sense for which you'd find less nauseating. My situation is not dissimilar from yours. My wife and I are 31 and 30, both have grad degrees, and our combined income is around what your looking for.

First, Sacramento:

Sacramento might shock you by how prevalent rednecks are. You won't be able to drive half a mile on I-80 without some fu manchu'd angsty hick tailgating you in his jacked up Chevy Silverado, replete in all its splendor with a bumpersticker of Calvin urinating on the Ford logo, and a pair of engorged rubber testicles dangling from the tow hitch.

You'll marvel that they actually spend large chunks of time on sports radio stations discussing NASCAR racing.

You'll quickly become frustrated when you ask people "Where in Sacramento should I live?" to which they will reply by saying some place that's NOT in Sacramento--Roseville, Fair Oaks, Folsom, etc. Essentially there's no decent neighborhood to live in in Sacramento proper, with the possible exception of parts of midtown.

If you follow the news, you'll find the rate of violent crime slightly disturbing, even if you manage to find a relatively safe neighborhood. Sac really does give Oakland a run for its money when it comes to urban decay.

You'll wander downtown with your fiance to explore some of Sacramento's urbanity--you'll wind up in Old Town, and you'll find it charming for about four hours. The second time you venture down there, you'll ask eachother "Is this it?" and recognize that downtown Sacramento is far less appealing than your average suburban shopping mall.

You'll find large stretches of the summer to be oppressively hot, and you'll quickly realize that Sacramento has two seasons, not four. You'll get the idea that escaping to one of the two major rivers must offer some relief from the heat, but then you'll realize that the rednecks are even more pervasive here than they are on the highways...and you'll quickly leave your riverside retreat when a beer bellied cletus in a pair of cut off jeans and a grease stained wifebeater won't turn down his Guns 'N Rose boombox.

Now on to Portland:

Ah, crap, I can't roast Portland the same way that I can Sacramento. Overall, I'd lean here if I were in your situation. It really is cold and dreary a lot. And it's not so much from rainshowers as it is this everpresent drizzle.

The town is extremely liberal, far more so than Sacramento (which has a liberal vibe as well). Personally, I feel most at home amongst moderate folks with a slightly cynical outlook on politics in general, and the cultural atmosphere of Portland would wear on me over time if I ever settled down there...but maybe that wouldn't bother you guys as much. Oregon suffers from historically high unemployment--but it's high in California as well.

Ultimately, here's why I'd pick Portland: Both cities have really nice areas that are short drives away. In Sac you have Tahoe and the Sierras nearby, two hours to the bay area and the coast. But they're just far enough away to be kind of a nuissance to get to on an impromptu basis. Whereas with Portland, you've got great beaches due west, Mount Hood and the surrounding environs to the East, the Columbia River Gorge to the east, the Willamette valley to the south...and everything's just that much easier to get to. Plus the city of Portland itself is twenty times prettier than Sacramento.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:10 PM
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Every time someone mentions Sacramento and Rednecks in the same sentence I already know they have ever never visited the place (despite claims otherwise) or just out right lying.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:47 PM
Location: Napa, CA
151 posts, read 366,390 times
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Originally Posted by Majin View Post
Every time someone mentions Sacramento and Rednecks in the same sentence I already know they have ever never visited the place (despite claims otherwise) or just out right lying.
Yep, you figured out my clever ruse. I created this fictitious identity, signed up for a city-data profile, researched a bunch about a city I've never lived in, just so I could submarine that one guy waffling between two cities. If you keep hear about Sac and rednecks repetitively, there's probably some truth to it. It's definitely odd, given that it's the capital and you'd expect the atmosphere to be different.

But Sacramento has a serious redneck influence, and it's utterly beyond me that people would deny that. Sometimes those who have lived too long in a particular place are the least capable of recognizing its flaws because it's just the norm to them. Denver's got plenty of problems but I simply can't see them because I've spent 25 years there, grew up there, and love everything about the place.

Anyhow, I'm not here to pick a fight (don't run me down in your 4x4 or anything).

Last edited by FentonForche; 12-18-2009 at 04:06 PM..
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Old 12-18-2009, 06:14 PM
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Why, how unusual...a city in the middle of the most bountiful agricultural valley in the nation with a large construction trade seems to have a lot of working-class white people in it, who, oddly enough, dress, talk and act like working-class white people!

Of course, they are far from alone--compared to Portland and Denver, Sacramento is far, far less Caucasian. Heck, those two cities are positively bleached. And as FentonForche has pointed out, when people talk about Sacramento they are often actually referring to places near it that aren't actually in Sacramento, but he's guilty of it himself--the concentration of trucks (with or without nuts) gets higher as you get out into the suburbs, while the city itself is more Volvo/Prius country.

Sacramento' farm country was always pretty culturally mixed--Italians, Portuguese, Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans, Indians and so on, from the late 19th century through the present day. We got a large influx of Southern/Midwestern working class white folks in the 1930s during the "Dust Bowl" era--hungry "Okies" looking for work in our fields and factories, and an influx of African Americans during World War II seeking factory work and jobs near our military bases. The result is a cultural melange that is uniquely American--if you compare the cultural mix of Sacramento to the cultural mix of America as a whole, they're a pretty close match. Portland, on the other hand, is really, really, really, REALLY white. Part of its passive-aggressive mealymouthed liberalism is its distinct shortage of the sort of grumpy soul that a city acquires when it has a diverse population. But, of course, when a lot of people ask on Internet forums for "nice neighborhoods," what they really mean is "white neighborhoods," so they don't get a lot of positive answers about Sacramento....but its far more caucasian suburbs are another matter entirely.

One thing about Sacramento-area rednecks is that there is also a subset of redneck hipsters. Some of those tattooed motorheads at the auto shop spend their nights being part of Sacramento's rowdy brand of sixties-punk rock & roll/rockabilly scene, or hanging out at tattoo studios or dive bars. Instead of a primered Camaro in their driveway they're likely to have an art car they built to show off at Burning Man (or both!) Musically the ones into country are likely to be into old-school Western Swing or bluegrass, while some who grew up as suburban metalheads got ahold of a Black Flag tape at some point and are now the musicians and audience for local sludgy noise-rock bands like the Mayyors, mutant psychedelia like the Ganglians or crazed funk expatriates !!!.

I guess some of us poor benighted rednecks just like it here. I consider myself a fairly educated guy, not immune to culture, but I'd rather go to the midnight movies than the opera, and a burger and fries sounds more appealing than a gourmet meal. I guess I live in the perfect place for that, because if I want to pay a bunch of money some arugula on a stick or feel a dire need to see a performance artist hop around in a circle while yodeling, I can pretty much walk to that if I want to.

I don't own a set of truck nuts, because they'd drag on the ground if I tried to attach them to the rear axle of my Volvo.
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Old 12-19-2009, 11:33 AM
Location: Napa, CA
151 posts, read 366,390 times
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I don't think it can all be blamed by the agricultural influence. My extended family is from the midwest--I've been in Iowa a lot, and I don't get the same vibe out there at all. I would be way more comfortable out there as opposed to Sacramento. I wasn't aware that not liking this kind of culture immediately turned me in to Niles Crane.

And personally, I don't care too much about the ethnic diversity of the place I inhabit. Other people might, and they have every right to feel that way. But if it's clean, safe, pretty, and temperate, then I don't care what the heck my neighbors look like. However, I do somewhat resent the insinuation that "nice" is a proxy for "white." That seems like a pretty prejudice attitude unto itself. I'd rather just assume that not every person runs around with furtively racist attitudes.

The more I think about the OP's original question, the more I think it's a slam dunk. Go to Portland, buddy. More attractive setting, cleaner city, less crime, more stable real estate market. The one kicker is the constant lack of sun. If you feel that would get to you, reconsider. But if you can hack that, head to Oregon country.
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