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Is that gawd-awful tunnel under I-5 the only walkway? Are there more pleasant ways to reach Old Sac?
How did others cities like Seattle fund decking projects. This is what Seattle did 20 years ago:
Interstate 5, Seattle: the Freeway Park sits on top of Interstate 5, which connects downtown to the Capitol Hill and First Hill districts. The park is multi-level and as such, there are areas where visitors are able to watch traffic pass by. The park is connected to the Washington State Convention Center which is also built on top of I-5.
From Ryan Lillis - SacBee:
It's been the dream of city planners for years: covering I-5 in downtown with a massive deck and eliminating a noisy barrier between the center city and the Sacramento River.
While plans under discussion aren't quite as grand as they once were - planners once tossed around the idea of a project costing more than $100 million - City Hall does want to hire a firm to come up with some design ideas that will increase flow from downtown streets to the riverfront area.
The City Council will be asked on Tuesday to approve a $799,178 contract with Parsons Brinckerhoff for design plans that could eventually include a bridge over I-5 at N Street, extending 2nd Street out of Old Sacramento, creating a new "gateway intersection" into Old Sacramento from Capitol Mall and building new sidewalks. A lot of that work is designed to improve access from the Crocker Art Museum to Old Sacramento.
Are we making any progress with these ideas?
Wouldn't it be great to walk from the New Arena to Old Sac and continue walking along the riverfront crossing the Tower Bridge to Raley Field without having to walk under I-5.
$100 million is actually a lot less than a full decking of I-5 would cost--it would cost more than the current arena. The plan they're talking about has been in the works for the past few years. It's not a plan to build a deck over I-5, but, as Lillis mentions, a new bridge over N Street and a new path via 2nd Street to the Capitol Mall bridge. Actually burying I-5 underground would be an enormous project, because you'd have to duck it down low enough to get under the Union Pacific mainline, and then vault it back upward high enough to get it over the American River very, very quickly. The current "boat section" requires constant draining and maintenance, due to its proximity to the river--a bigger underground section means that much more maintenance, drainage, and flood risk.
Currently, you can walk from the arena site over the Tower Bridge to Raley Field via L Street or Capitol, without having to walk under I-5. That end of L Street isn't very pedestrian friendly, due to its role as the main route onto I-5, but hopefully part of all that arena stuff will include ways to make the walk more interesting and useful--ideally, with some street facing storefronts along L Street that will provide activity even when games aren't happening.
There are several ways into Old Sacramento: if you take the Gold Line to the Sacramento Valley depot, you can walk under the elevated I-5 section and enter Old Sacramento from behind the Railroad Museum. If you bike or walk up from the riverfront promenade south of Capitol you can walk in via Front Street. There is also a pedestrian path from West Sacramento over the I Street bridge, and an I Street pedestrian path. You can also take the bike path south from Richards/Jibboom under the I Street bridge.
The K Street path under I-5 is the main avenue, and it has some nice features (like the Royal Chicano Air Force LASERIUM mural) to make up for its basically grim features, but it could certainly use some programming. I think it would be a great place for a permanent "public market" with vendor stalls along one or both sides of the underpass, providing "eyes on the street" and regular activity in the underpass.
The ideal solution, of course, would be moving I-5 over to the West Sacramento side, and turning 2nd Street into a promenade, like what San Francisco did with the Embarcadero Freeway. Too bad we don't get earthquakes...
Thanks burg, I figured you would have something to say about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg
$100 million is actually a lot less than a full decking of I-5 would cost--it would cost more than the current arena. The plan they're talking about has been in the works for the past few years. It's not a plan to build a deck over I-5, but, as Lillis mentions, a new bridge over N Street and a new path via 2nd Street to the Capitol Mall bridge.
Years! How many more charettes do we need to get this done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg
Currently, you can walk from the arena site over the Tower Bridge to Raley Field via L Street or Capitol, without having to walk under I-5. That end of L Street isn't very pedestrian friendly, due to its role as the main route onto I-5, but hopefully part of all that arena stuff will include ways to make the walk more interesting and useful--ideally, with some street facing storefronts along L Street that will provide activity even when games aren't happening.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg
There are several ways into Old Sacramento: if you take the Gold Line to the Sacramento Valley depot, you can walk under the elevated I-5 section and enter Old Sacramento from behind the Railroad Museum. If you bike or walk up from the riverfront promenade south of Capitol you can walk in via Front Street. There is also a pedestrian path from West Sacramento over the I Street bridge, and an I Street pedestrian path. You can also take the bike path south from Richards/Jibboom under the I Street bridge.
We've done these routes, they are all sort of dismal, too bad there isn't a better route.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg
The K Street path under I-5 is the main avenue, and it has some nice features (like the Royal Chicano Air Force LASERIUM mural) to make up for its basically grim features, but it could certainly use some programming. I think it would be a great place for a permanent "public market" with vendor stalls along one or both sides of the underpass, providing "eyes on the street" and regular activity in the underpass.
Nothing can make that path (under the overpass) pleasant. The noise is maddening. I hate how the noise affects the whole area along 2nd street. There are some great historical structues and fun businesses but that noise just ruins it for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg
The ideal solution, of course, would be moving I-5 over to the West Sacramento side, and turning 2nd Street into a promenade, like what San Francisco did with the Embarcadero Freeway. Too bad we don't get earthquakes...
A clear path to Old Sacramento without the freeway would make the whole riverfront/OLD Sac area spectacular.
Which streets and structures were in the space now occupied by I-5 from I Street to P and R streets?
Years! How many more charettes do we need to get this done?
Zero charrettes. Several hundred million dollars just to cover the existing "boat section." Unless you can figure out a way to get I-5 to go under the American River, getting the whole thing underground is pretty darn close to physically impossible, still likely to flood, and we're probably talking about a billion-dollar project.
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We've done these routes, they are all sort of dismal, too bad there isn't a better route.
They all have to address the basic issue of crossing under I-5.
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Nothing can make that path (under the overpass) pleasant. The noise is maddening. I hate how the noise affects the whole area along 2nd street. There are some great historical structues and fun businesses but that noise just ruins it for me.
A common refrain. I can tune it out but of course it's a big complaint--the presence of I-5 makes it difficult for anyone visiting from the west (or north or south) to realize there is anything east of the highway, no matter how large and impressive.
Quote:
A clear path to Old Sacramento without the freeway would make the whole riverfront/OLD Sac area spectacular.
Which streets and structures were in the space now occupied by I-5 from I Street to P and R streets?
2nd and 3rd Street, hundreds of buildings ranging from hotels and bars to large factories. Some notable ones include Huntington-Hopkins Hardware (the one next to the Railroad Museum is a reconstruction using the original bricks), the old Sacramento Bee building (part of why Eleanor McClatchy hated I-5 so much is the demolition of her family's landmark), Hackett House, and the westernmost part of the Mexican barrio and Japantown. Farther south of M Street were a union freight depot, Union Iron Works, a rice mill, one of our four Del Monte canneries, a couple lumberyards, and assorted other factories, mills, distributors and railroad-related freight houses along Front Street and east along R. 2nd Street and 3rd Street were mostly dense mixed-use residential, with a couple of the old Japanese churches and businesses--kind of like 10th Street in Southside or J Street in Midtown, mixed use neighborhoods. The same farther south of R Street, but Portuguese and Italian, and a few more industries along Front Street.
Oh yeah, below is an example of what can happen in a heavy rain year along I-5:
This is a bit blurry but shows the waterfront circa 1934. Note there is a nearly continuous wall of transfer warehouses along the river itself, with a lot of barges and riverboats docked alongside--the Delta King/Queen dock was just south of the M Street bridge (predecessor of the Tower Bridge.)
Here's an aerial photo that shows the block between 2nd and 3rd Street--you can see on the left the block between Front and 2nd mostly cleared, and the beginning of the "fork" of Capitol Mall between 2nd and 3rd in the background, so this photo is probably from some time in the 1960s. Closest to the camera is the Thomson-Diggs warehouse between R and S, with boxcars visible on R Street. You might recognize the Crocker Art Museum in the upper part of the photo--note that the cleared block that is now "Crocker Park" is full of homes, with more houses on the right side of 3rd Street. Farther down on the right is the Lincoln School, and more industrial buildings along R.
Who would pay for moving I-5? The costs would be massive. The rest of the state may feel there are more pressing needs (assuming the money was available).
Wasn't what is Old Sac a rather rundown area before? Long on the city's periphery, rather cut off? I lived in Sac from 1974-83 (have been back frequently), and even then it didn't look like the promise of Old Sac would be fulfilled. Too many gift boutiques and such. Still has good museums, and really interesting tours, and at least a couple of decent restaurants, but it isn't SF and never will be. I recall there being more than one walkway under I-5, such as along I Street, to the parking lots.
Who would pay for moving I-5? The costs would be massive. The rest of the state may feel there are more pressing needs (assuming the money was available).
Wasn't what is Old Sac a rather rundown area before? Long on the city's periphery, rather cut off? I lived in Sac from 1974-83 (have been back frequently), and even then it didn't look like the promise of Old Sac would be fulfilled. Too many gift boutiques and such. Still has good museums, and really interesting tours, and at least a couple of decent restaurants, but it isn't SF and never will be. I recall there being more than one walkway under I-5, such as along I Street, to the parking lots.
Small note: Sacramento's pulse and feel is nothing like the 70's and early 80's. What's great about Sacramento is it's got it's own thing going - walk(not drive) around midtown, get on a bike, cruise the grid, do the art walk, catch some live theater at one of the smaller theaters, or watch a Sacramento Kings game at the many cool sports bars, hang out at the many clusters of clubs in the grid.
Samoi137: It isn't supposed to be SF. That era was kind of a low point for downtown--the thrill had already worn off the K Street mall, as nearby residents visited it as a novelty a couple of times but didn't return much because it had basically the same stores as the suburban malls. The walkways under I-5 are basically the same as they were in 1974-83, but as you say, they are basically to the parking lots under the freeway.
The waterfront was run-down, because it was a heavy industrial area, but it wasn't cut off from the city until I-5 plowed through. It was the most densely populated neighborhood and an extraordinarily diverse neighborhood, until the 1960s when the employment centers were closed and demolished, and the residences cleared out and demolished, except for a six-block area, spared for its tourism potential. Old Sacramento doesn't have any more gift boutiques per block than comparable tourist areas, and some of its promise was fulfilled. It was never supposed to be San Francisco--but it has succeeded in being Sacramento. The Crocker's new expansion changed the game for the arts, and tourism options in Old Sacramento have spilled out into downtown and midtown. How could a six-block area be expected to somehow equal a city of 49 square miles--or represent its own city of nearly 100 square miles? It's an introduction to Sacramento, not a substitute.
And yes, today's downtown is starting to look a lot more like the era of the 40s and 50s. On the 1000 block of K Street there are new clubs and restaurants illuminated with new neon lights, live theater and even burlesque. All we need are another 28,000 people...plus the River District, West Sacramento, and more infill in East Sac/Land Park/Curtis Park.
Samoi137: It isn't supposed to be SF. That era was kind of a low point for downtown--the thrill had already worn off the K Street mall, as nearby residents visited it as a novelty a couple of times but didn't return much because it had basically the same stores as the suburban malls. The walkways under I-5 are basically the same as they were in 1974-83, but as you say, they are basically to the parking lots under the freeway.
The waterfront was run-down, because it was a heavy industrial area, but it wasn't cut off from the city until I-5 plowed through. It was the most densely populated neighborhood and an extraordinarily diverse neighborhood, until the 1960s when the employment centers were closed and demolished, and the residences cleared out and demolished, except for a six-block area, spared for its tourism potential. Old Sacramento doesn't have any more gift boutiques per block than comparable tourist areas, and some of its promise was fulfilled. It was never supposed to be San Francisco--but it has succeeded in being Sacramento. The Crocker's new expansion changed the game for the arts, and tourism options in Old Sacramento have spilled out into downtown and midtown. How could a six-block area be expected to somehow equal a city of 49 square miles--or represent its own city of nearly 100 square miles? It's an introduction to Sacramento, not a substitute.
And yes, today's downtown is starting to look a lot more like the era of the 40s and 50s. On the 1000 block of K Street there are new clubs and restaurants illuminated with new neon lights, live theater and even burlesque. All we need are another 28,000 people...plus the River District, West Sacramento, and more infill in East Sac/Land Park/Curtis Park.
All good points, Burg. It's interesting now that Downtown Plaza has limited shopping-- perhaps the reason all the smaller shops in midtown have propped up in the last 5-10 yrs.
Downtown Plaza had a great 10-15 year run; its down fall was a combination of a changing market(internet shopping), a brand new mall in Roseville, and big box stores in the suburbs.
The Street car will be great to connect it all, and with the street car connecting to light rail people will have more of a reason to use light rail in a way that connects them to even larger parts of the grid.
I've been paying attention to all the past, present historical rehabs, re-use, and new construction -- Lavel del Lagos on 15th street - fantabulous! If you were to catalog them all in the past 10-15 years its quite a success.
Any ideas on what to do with the historical structure (1964 utilitarian commi bloq beaux arts), looming over the Stanford Mansion?
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