This is NOT a racist question: Implications for Buying in "Asianing" Areas (San Francisco: middle-class, section 8)

[inpd]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

How is this confusing?

It is very odd that people (even the middle class) separate themselves
along racial lines coming from another first world country.

People separating into poor and rich is one thing and understandable.
The wealthy have one set of needs/priorities that are different to the
poor.

But the middle class
Asians separating from the middle class whites and middle class African Americans
means that I'm not quite getting the complete pictures hence my confusion.

[MannyfromCali]

Originally Posted by Fat Freddy

The houses on my street are occupied by Chinese, European Whites, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Vietnamese, Jews, African Americans, Pakistanis, Japanese/White, and African American/White. We used to have some neighbors from Russia and Romania but they moved.

I have no idea what goes on inside my neighbors' houses and I don't care. From the outside, in terms of "the neighborhood" we are all the same. The houses are all pretty similar as are the cars in the driveways, we all mow our lawns on the weekends, and the kids ride their skateboards and bikes up and down the street.

Our respective cultures have nothing to do with the neighborhood or living in it.

Fat Freddy,
Your experience with your neighborhood illustrates what I mean about race/ culture being ethnocentric. Many of us live like you in that we don't care about what goes on in our next door neighbor's lives. Often times, we don't even know who they really are, and we don't feel compelled to get to know them either. This demonstates that economic class parity is not enough to stimulate neighborly interaction and "tightness" as our parents fondly recall about the olden days. Yes, the dilution of a majority in the neighborhood is quietly tolerated, even welcomed for a while until reaching a saturation point wherein the majority members start to move and start using terms like "Asianing of the neighborhood." The OP qualifies this question by stating that
"This is not a racist question," diffusing guilt about using the race/culture Asian to clarify context of this question. He should not feel guilty of the question nor the context in which it was phrased. It is natural to feel this way when judging our environment and the peoples we share it with. His humanity and civilization shines when he allows some tolerance for diversity ethnically...up to that saturation point. If everyone keeps civilized, then economically, the only effect of the "Asianing" of certain areas is the narrowing and specialization of market that will look into said neighborhood. For many buyers that seek neighbors that they can be aquainted with as well as considering their home purchase as an investment as well, their risk tolerance may not allow them to buy in Asian neighborhood.

Kids biking up and down the street? Well, the innocent ones have not yet developed the unfortunate but real adult notions that divide us all.

ndfmnlf,

The white flight you speak of in your example is also an illustration of the tribe mentality I speak of. All idealized economic, educational, behavioural, motivational factors can be present in a neighborhood but these participants are different culturally from the whites and therefore not comfortable company in personal life as well as familial life. This is not exclusive to the whites, just of the dominant culture at the start of a changing neighborhood.

Many of us of the "white culture" have met that "colored" individual raised among the whites, speaks with no accent different from the whites, acts, is of the same mentality as a white. This individual is accepted comfortably and almost treated completely just as a white. The term "almost" is key. Tribal solidarity both racially and culturally always prevails when the tension rises due to sociological issues.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by inpd

It is very odd that people (even the middle class) separate themselves
along racial lines coming from another first world country.

People separating into poor and rich is one thing and understandable.
The wealthy have one set of needs/priorities that are different to the
poor.

But the middle class
Asians separating from the middle class whites and middle class African Americans
means that I'm not quite getting the complete pictures hence my confusion.

I dont think its cause for confusion at all. There are many Bay Area suburbs that are middle class and somewhat upper middle class that are majority asian. For that matter, there are many Oakland neighborhoods that are wealthy and predominantly black as well.

Does this mean that there is some sinister plot to overthrow the white man? Nope. It just means that they want to be around each other and have the money to make it happen.

Nothing wrong with that. Whites did that when they all moved to the suburbs decades ago. Its only natural that once other racial groups gain wealth that they will do the same thing.

The Bay Area is a very interesting place in this regard because we've got lots of wealthy asians who are sizable percentages of dozens of suburban towns.

[ndfmnlf]

For many buyers that seek neighbors that they can be aquainted with as well as considering their home purchase as an investment as well, their risk tolerance may not allow them to buy in Asian neighborhood.

If Asian neighborhoods tend to have rising property values (hence making them good long term investments), then it makes sense to buy properties in these neighoborhoods. It doesn't matter that the people who live there are predominantly Asian. You'll still make money. The only color of money is green.

I don't quite understand the OP's concerns about the Asianization of these neighborhoods. He concedes that the school districts have improved. The Pocket area is is described as affluent. Cupertino is a very affluent city (median household income is about $100K) with low crime rates (see City Data). So what's the problem? Why the white flight?

[quasi888]

Originally Posted by inpd

It is very odd that people (even the middle class) separate themselves
along racial lines coming from another first world country.

You are making a grand assumption that the non-whites came from another country. The majority of Asian Americans in the Pocket area are non-immigrant, I believe.

Of course, that fact would seemingly make your question (about why they segregate themselves) even more valid. The reasons can range from simple tribe mentality (we have tendencies to be among our own "kind"), to racism and prejudice (yes, it is still very much alive in 2007, that should not be a startling revelation to anybody).

[inpd]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Does this mean that there is some sinister plot to overthrow the white man?

I'm not sure where your coming from. The original purpose of the question
was to understand the implications of moving into such areas not *why* it
is occurring.

[ndfmnlf]

The original purpose of the question
was to understand the implications of moving into such areas not *why* it
is occurring.

The implication of moving into such areas is that you will make a profit by the time you sell your house since these Asianized areas generally have good schools, and residents who care about preserving their middle and upper middle class communities. Does this answer your question, or do you have something else in mind?

[kalim2008]

Originally Posted by inpd

So what are the implications from the perspective
of resale? I really have no idea. Is it a plus or a minus?
How about culturally and socially?
Thanks!

Asian neighborhoods usually have very high home values (it's pushed up because asians are the wealthiest group in the USA - i believe it's filipinos first, then chinese), and asian are very concerned about schooling their children so the schools are typically top notch, so I would think on the resale front it's a VERY BIG plus. In fact, I've read many times of whites being forced out of such neighborhoods and complaining about prices that are TOO high (e.g. some cities in Canada, where lots of Chinese reside)

On the other hand, if you think you'll start feeling like an "outsider" in the place, then don't buy there. Also, if your kid cannot compete in the schools academically because of the higher learning curves, then don't buy there. That's not racist, that's being practical.

[rocketeer]

From most of the posts that I read, I don't understand why people would be upset living in a large Asian area. I definitely wouldn't mind, it sounds rather nice to live in. I think they are definitely more accepting of other cultures, than many other groups of people. I never really thought people had much prejudices with Asian Americans. Even with the past history of discrimination you rarely hear Asains complain, b/c they know better not dwell on it, they just move on. I could be completely wrong, but this is what I've experienced with the people I grew up with.

[quasi888]

Originally Posted by rocketeer

you rarely hear Asains complain, b/c they know better not dwell on it, they just move on. I could be completely wrong...

You would be right, and you would be wrong.

Are you familiar with the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII (Executive Order 9066)? Yes, American-born citizens of Japanese heritage effectively stripped of their money and property, and forced into remote "camps" for the duration of the war. A majority of my Japanese American friends growing up (I'm in my 30s now) were affected by this in some way or another -- typically, their grandparents were the ones forced into the camps, and their parents were born in the camps.

Some of those grandparents forgave the American government for this ugly (and often ignored) chapter in American history. And some never did.