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The Bible is the true word of God. That's not a fact because I say it's a fact. It's our job (Christians) to help spread the word of God. I also did NOT say that homesexuality is a sin. I was pointing out what the Bible has to say about homosexuality. The Bible says that homosexuals will not have a share in the Kingdom of God. So I wasn't even expressing my opinion on whether homesexuality is a sin or not. Again, and maybe I should say it more plainly so you'll understand, I'm conveying the word of God for you to figure out what that means to you.
Did I ever say I was without sin? Of course not, I'm human and we all committ sins. Am I saying I'm 'holier than thou'? Of course not. You really shouldn't put words in my mouth and draw conclusions based on things that are not true.
A few posts ago someone said homosexuality isn't a sin so that's the discussion I was trying to continue with. 'Sin' is a biblical term and the Bible preaches against homosexuality so therefore the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.
My point was that the person who posted that shouldn't mix biblical words if they are making a non-biblical argument. Is that really that hard for you to understand?
The word "homosexuality" wasn't even around 2000+ years ago. It was added by the Bible publishers around the year 1952. "Homo" from the Greek origin meaning "same". "Sexual" from the Latin term Sexualis meaning "sex". The word "homosexual" was originated approximately 100 years ago and was first seen in an 1869 German pamphlet by the Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. There is no word in biblical Greek or Hebrew that is equivalent to the English word "homosexual". If you have 4 minutes to spare, you can watch this video:
Or check Wikipedia or Google for more background on the word.
Also, the bible talks about "man lying with man" but what it's referring to is not modern day English "homosexuality", but MISOGYNY! It was said that a man who "lies with man" is putting himself in the position of a woman (aka "SLAVES"!!!) and it's the lowest of the low. Therefore, you are *acting* as a woman...which is "the sin".
My religion says there is no opposing force to God. God is *ALL* there is. There is no such thing as the devil. We are taught in our church that we are whole and complete and perfect exactly as we are. To me, the bible is just another book. I'm sure there are a lot of straight people that feel the same way.
As for the original topic, I again say that as an adoptive gay parent I wouldn't want to try to adopt a child through the Placer County court system. We have first hand information from social workers that have told us that even though the law says they can't discriminate, they do. It's very different then Sac County where there are openly gay placement workers who do not discriminate.
And lets not forget the internet letter that circulated (I've seen it addressed to Dr. Laura, Pres. Bush, and a few others):
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Ok, setting all the prior debates aside, it's comforting to know that you are not knowingly advocating hatred of gays or other groups to your children. I understand that when parents tell their children "it's not ok", or that if something is bad or wrong it's because they want to protect them. Unfortunately, it also can plant a seed that can alter their way of thinking for life when it comes to various other things. Most of these children grow up to form their own opinions about life and social issues but a lot of them use this message as an unofficial "permission slip" to advocate hatred and perhaps violence against certain groups of people even if you say "it's not okay to hate". This philosophy is very tricky because it's almost like sending them a mixed message - "this is wrong", "this is not okay" but "don't hate". If my child encountered a gay couple and asked about it, I would simply say something like, "in this big world, there are all different kinds of people and all different types of love to go with it", and leave it at that. Their basic awareness of this reality would not confuse their sexuality because this issue has really nothing to do about sex. However, children do understand how to feel and share love and isn't that really the cornerstone of all relationships regardless of whether the person is gay or straight - love?? If anything, carefully introducing them to the variety of human relationships if they should ask will only facillitate a more well rounded, empathetic, and loving individual as they grow older.
Just my 25 cents.
Beautiful!!!! I agree.
It's not ok for a man to marry a man? WHAT? Why on earth anybody would EVER say that to a child is beyond me. It truly makes me sad that anybody would teach that to their children.
My religion says there is no opposing force to God. God is *ALL* there is. There is no such thing as the devil. We are taught in our church that we are whole and complete and perfect exactly as we are. To me, the bible is just another book. I'm sure there are a lot of straight people that feel the same way.
The question was, 'How gay friendly are Rocklin & Roseville?' It was not a question meant to turn into a Bible study class. However, with that said, here's what I can tell you about what I believe.
Jesus commanded us to love our "neighbors" (Matthew 22:39), and I love gays just as much as any other "neighbor." So if the Bible says that unrepentant, practicing homosexuals will be excluded from heaven, then it is proper for us to be just as concerned about their salvation as anyone else's salvation. I have prayerfully studied all of the arguments that I can find both for and against homosexuality, and I have not found the pro-homosexual arguments to be convincing from a Scriptural standpoint.
Many of the Christian arguments against homosexuality line up with what I see in the Bible, and therefore that's the only view that I can teach in good conscience. It has nothing to do with "gay bashing" or "homophobia," it is simply a question of "What do I honestly and prayerfully see in the Bible concerning homosexuality?"
It would be wonderful to be able to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality, but I would want to have strong proof of that because the stakes are immensely high. The stakes are nothing less than salvation itself (as we will see), and unfortunately I just don't see any Scriptural proof that homosexual activity is ever acceptable to God.
Afterall, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam & Steve.
Afterall, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam & Steve.
Gee, that's original. Come now, you can do better than that. I wasn't aware people still used that tired, old line.
How 1980s of you.
I get mostly sarcasm and insults from you while I'm trying to carry on an adult conversation. What's the point of your responses if they are only meant to put me down? The idea of this forum is to exchange ideas/beliefs using ADULT conversation and not petty little comments like most of yours seem to be.
Maybe a review of the Terms of Service would be in order for you. 'Senior Members' should really know better and be able to set more of an example.
CityX, I agree. I admit to having an eye roll when I read that line, too.
Pba, I appreciate the adult level conversation, but did you not even read my post about the origin of the word "homosexual"?
Also, you are talking from your own christian viewpoint. What would you tell somebody who practices budhism? Within budhism there is no seeking salvation or forgivness from some God, because there is no God. Individuals seek salvation and forgivness from within themselves. They feel that they are the only ones who can forgive themselves. So talking about the bible is a moot point here. You can quote as many scriptures as you want, but to me you might as well be citing quotes from Moby Dick. It has the same meaning for me.
CityX, I agree. I admit to having an eye roll when I read that line, too.
Pba, I appreciate the adult level conversation, but did you not even read my post about the origin of the word "homosexual"?
Also, you are talking from your own christian viewpoint. What would you tell somebody who practices budhism? Within budhism there is no seeking salvation or forgivness from some God, because there is no God. Individuals seek salvation and forgivness from within themselves. They feel that they are the only ones who can forgive themselves. So talking about the bible is a moot point here. You can quote as many scriptures as you want, but to me you might as well be citing quotes from Moby Dick. It has the same meaning for me.
The post was called 'how gay friendly are rocklin and roseville?'. I'm not going to hijack this post and start a conversation about Bible study. If that's the subject you want to discuss then start a new post.
By the way, God covers everyone whether you (or anyone) believes it or not.
Seriously folks, people believe what they believe. Sometimes all the logic in the world will not have any affect on religious beliefs. Again, I bring up the example of suicide bombers. They believe that they're doing God's work and will happily kill innocent people to achieve their goals. There's nothing you can say or do to change a person's mind who believes that they will be going to heaven after they blow their self up, along with a crowd full of people. You're wasting your breath.
I tried having this discussion with a guy on a forum once, hoping to get some logical answers. He likened homosexuality to bestiality, saying that if gay marriage becomes legal that it would open the doors for men and sheep to get married next. I felt it was a ridiculous argument and that the guy was insulting my intelligence by taking it there. I didn't see the point in debating any further with the guy. He had very little to bring to the debate aside from old/ancient scriptures and the same mindset of that of a suicide bomber. What was the point?
Everyone picks and chooses what to follow in the Bible. Everyone. There's so much hypocrisy it's amazing. You can pull so many lines out of the book that would not be acceptable in today's world - some of which have been quoted in this thread. Why not just do right by your fellow man and be careful how you teach your children on the subject. Maybe then there would be fewer hate crimes and discrimination justified by religion.
Isn't it ironic how our nation is so proud of its freedoms? Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom to live however you want. And yet the religion of the majority overrules everyone else much of the time. How is that true freedom? I guess we can't have a truly free society and still uphold the values of one group of people. It's a catch 22.
By the way, God covers everyone whether you (or anyone) believes it or not.
In your "opinion", yes. In other religions, they have a different opinion. You both "believe" you're right. Faith isn't factual, that's why it's called faith.
In your "opinion", yes. In other religions, they have a different opinion. You both "believe" you're right. Faith isn't factual, that's why it's called faith.
I totally agreed with your first post but beliefs can cross into facts for some (most?) people.....I know it does for me. My belief is that God's word covers everyone without exception. So I disagree that this is just my 'opinion' and I also disagree with you when you say that faith isn't factual.
I do agree with you though that when you get people at opposite ends of the spectrum on this particular subject that they will NEVER agree. Unfortunately, that's how wars start. Nice world we live in, huh?
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