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Old 04-27-2019, 10:01 PM
Status: "Summer's here!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
89,898 posts, read 107,142,268 times
Reputation: 35542

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb73 View Post
Not having been vaccinated does not automatically give you a disease. There has to be someone that actually has it first.

And totally besides the fact that there's no vaccination for tuberculosis, it's been a given for quite some time now that the majority of the cases have been ahem....slipping over the southern border....so to speak. So standing around the Capital won't expose you to that either.

And depending on the age of the protesters, it's possible that they weren't vaccinated as children. My generation only got 3 vaccines. My son got 5. It's only the current generation that's getting 30 or 40 vaccines. And yet the older generation doesn't seem to immediately die of the diseases they weren't vaccinated from. Odd that.
I'm not sure what generation you're in, but I'm getting close to 70 and my generation got 4 in infancy (diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis and smallpox) then polio when I was 6 (1955). That makes 5.

In adulthood, I got Hepatitis B, then A (that's the way they came out). Tdap (another combination of Tetanus, diphtheria (reduced strength) and acellular pertussis (reduced strength) came out in 2005 and I got that. When I went on a mission trip to Brazil I got yellow fever and typhoid. I also started getting flu shots in my 30s.

My kids got DTP, polio, MMR and Hib by age 2. Then they got Hep B, Hep A, meningitis and HPV later. That's 12. They also started on flu shots in about 1999.

No one is getting 30 or 40 vaccines. And as you've already been told, there is a tuberculosis vaccine but we don't use it here in the US. And ahem, the racism!

The ones who died aren't here posting. Odd that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNewsLogin View Post
Chickenpox is usually mild but before the vaccine, about 10,000 people landed in the hospital each year due to complications and 10 died.
100 died, not 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd View Post
How do you figure this part? Typhoid Mary was asymptomatic and spread the disease without knowing she was infected, so that's not really a very relevant analogy. This works only if you have someone infected with a virus who shows no symptoms, but spreads the disease. If you just want to be dramatic, you have any number of outbreaks to choose from (though the death counts are far higher): the Black Death, Spanish Flu Pandemic, Great Plague of London, Plague of Athens, AIDS Pandemic... or closer to home, San Francisco Plague (1900-1904).

Personally, I feel mixed on this issue. I remarked on another thread about evolution trying so hard to weed out dead-ends in the gene pool but modern medicine seems to want to interfere. If these types of parents are passing on their genes, this progeny isn't getting vaccinated. However, I also feel that it isn't fair to the kids (or children too young to be vaccinated) because their parents are idiots. What I hope to not see though is the virus adapting.

As people tend to be too stupid to realize it (hence this movement), viruses are living organisms and will adapt to situations, including the inability to adopt hosts before the virus can alter itself to the situation as in smallpox, though they could be driven to extinction. Consider drug-resistant gonorrhea or people who use PrEP irregularly and become infected with HIV that can resist the drug's potency. As with any other living thing on this planet, that virus is going to fight for its survival.
Many vaccine-preventable diseases are contagious before symptoms appear, flu for example. Measles is contagious before the rash appears and the early symptoms are basically those of a cold, so parents send their kids to school.

I find these weed-out comments to be very offensive. Since time began, people have tried to beat the grim reaper with medicine men, herbs, potions, tying ribbons around trees and whatnot.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-27-2019 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 04-27-2019, 10:11 PM
Status: "Summer's here!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
89,898 posts, read 107,142,268 times
Reputation: 35542
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
My daughters have had the HPV vaccine. I forgot about that one. Pneumococcus is only listed once on their immunization cards and there is no mention of rotavirus. Those must have been added after their time. We don't get flu shots.

Definitely, parents have options to get more or fewer vaccinations for their children and some are more important than others in my opinion. Obviously so, as we don't get flu shots, and I know people who chose not to give their children the chicken pox, meningitis and HPV vaccines. But polio, measles, mumps, rubella... I know a woman who has one leg paralyzed from polio. It must have been terrifying when polio was running rampant.
For as much as you have said that, some of us have tried to tell you, flu is the VPD you and your family are most likely to contract, be hospitalized for, and die from. This year has been fairly mild for deaths, both for kids and adults, yet still there have been 96 pediatric deaths. Adult deaths are forecast to be 34,400 to 57,300.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
https://www.precisionvaccinations.co...-2018-2019-flu

As suzy said, it is extremly unlikely your kids would be exposed to polio, yet that is the disease that American parents fear the most. Of course, you should still get vaccinated, because it's just "an airplane ride away" and if someone brought it in to the US, it would be a disaster with all these unvaccinated kids. But get your flu shots!
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:51 AM
 
8,754 posts, read 5,318,103 times
Reputation: 23079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
For as much as you have said that, some of us have tried to tell you, flu is the VPD you and your family are most likely to contract, be hospitalized for, and die from. This year has been fairly mild for deaths, both for kids and adults, yet still there have been 96 pediatric deaths. Adult deaths are forecast to be 34,400 to 57,300.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
https://www.precisionvaccinations.co...-2018-2019-flu

As suzy said, it is extremely unlikely your kids would be exposed to polio, yet that is the disease that American parents fear the most. Of course, you should still get vaccinated, because it's just "an airplane ride away" and if someone brought it in to the US, it would be a disaster with all these unvaccinated kids. But get your flu shots!
Are most of the people who die from flu not elderly? My father died in January, not exactly of flu directly, but he did get flu (Influenza A), then pneumonia, and though he officially recovered from both, he was so weakened that he never regained strength and died of heart failure several weeks later. He was 94 and he had had a flu shot, but it seems especially ineffective in very elderly people.

My kids have never had flu. My husband and I have had flu maybe once or twice, and we're 50. I know....anecdotes...but the fact is, that it wasn't even recommended that healthy people our age get a flu shot until 2010, so we lived 40 years without it and it's not really a priority for us to get one every single year. If you could get it once and it would be 97% effective for the rest of your life like the measles vaccine, of course, we would have had it.
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
26,581 posts, read 30,872,183 times
Reputation: 33086
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
Are most of the people who die from flu not elderly? My father died in January, not exactly of flu directly, but he did get flu (Influenza A), then pneumonia, and though he officially recovered from both, he was so weakened that he never regained strength and died of heart failure several weeks later. He was 94 and he had had a flu shot, but it seems especially ineffective in very elderly people.

My kids have never had flu. My husband and I have had flu maybe once or twice, and we're 50. I know....anecdotes...but the fact is, that it wasn't even recommended that healthy people our age get a flu shot until 2010, so we lived 40 years without it and it's not really a priority for us to get one every single year. If you could get it once and it would be 97% effective for the rest of your life like the measles vaccine, of course, we would have had it.
My condolences on the death of your father.

The age group most affected will vary from year to year. For example, during the 2009-2010 pandemic the largest number of cases worldwide were in the 18 to 64 year age group, then the under 18, then the over 64, with the suspicion that the older population possibly had some protection from exposure to a similar strain in the past.

The risk of getting flu can vary. Some years it may be 2% of the population and others it may be 20%. The problem is that the severity of a season is difficult to estimate ahead of time, though the southern hemisphere experience can give some indication of what to expect.

We need a universal flu vaccine that can be given once, but until we have it we need to use the one we have, even with its reduced effectiveness, and one of the best ways to protect the elderly is to vaccinate children.
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Old 04-28-2019, 12:21 PM
Status: "Summer's here!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
89,898 posts, read 107,142,268 times
Reputation: 35542
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
Are most of the people who die from flu not elderly? My father died in January, not exactly of flu directly, but he did get flu (Influenza A), then pneumonia, and though he officially recovered from both, he was so weakened that he never regained strength and died of heart failure several weeks later. He was 94 and he had had a flu shot, but it seems especially ineffective in very elderly people.

My kids have never had flu. My husband and I have had flu maybe once or twice, and we're 50. I know....anecdotes...but the fact is, that it wasn't even recommended that healthy people our age get a flu shot until 2010, so we lived 40 years without it and it's not really a priority for us to get one every single year. If you could get it once and it would be 97% effective for the rest of your life like the measles vaccine, of course, we would have had it.
I'm going to tag on to what suzy said.

First, I'm sorry for your loss.

No, most people who die from flu are not elderly, and certainly not all deaths in the elderly are in people in their 90s. Most years, most deaths are in the very young (under 5 and especially under 2) and in the elderly > 65. Note the word "most". It does not mean "all". That's a different word altogether.

So freaking what if healthy people your age weren't recommended to get an annual flu shot until 2010? In addition to the fact that's incorrect, health care does advance over the years. We don't use leeches or bleeding any more. (Cue the people who are going to post some links of these being used today. You know what I mean. This is not standard treatment like it was in George Washington's day. It's thought that Washington probably died of blood loss.)

In 2003, all babies and children 6-23 months were recommended to get flu vaccine.
In 2008, the flu recommendation was expanded to all kids 6 mo-age 18.
Flu vaccine for people age 50+ has been recommended since at least 2003.
Historic Dates and Events Related to Vaccines and Immunization
https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org...osages/2003-11
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Old 04-28-2019, 12:48 PM
Status: "Summer's here!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
89,898 posts, read 107,142,268 times
Reputation: 35542
For those who use "The Brady Bunch" as evidence:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...arcia-s-miffed
"Maureen McCormick played Marcia as a teen. . .McCormick says that she got measles as a child and that it was nothing like the Brady Bunch episode; she got really sick. . ."Having the measles was not a fun thing," she says. "I remember it spread through my family." "
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:20 PM
 
8,754 posts, read 5,318,103 times
Reputation: 23079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
So freaking what if healthy people your age weren't recommended to get an annual flu shot until 2010?

In 2003, all babies and children 6-23 months were recommended to get flu vaccine.
In 2008, the flu recommendation was expanded to all kids 6 mo-age 18.
Flu vaccine for people age 50+ has been recommended since at least 2003.
I don't want to quibble about years with you...I read the date 2010 somewhere and perhaps it is wrong. I was nowhere near 50 in 2003, and no, doctors were not recommending flu shots to me at that time.

My babies were born in 1999, 2002, and 2005 and throughout their entire childhoods I can only remember one time a pediatrician mentioned a flu shot. I consider that my kids are fully vaxxed and when we have to supply vaccination records for school etc., we are never told "But they haven't had flu shots!" So maybe I live in the backwater, I don't know, but here on C-D is about the only place I feel all this pressure to get one.
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:17 PM
Status: "Summer's here!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
89,898 posts, read 107,142,268 times
Reputation: 35542
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
I don't want to quibble about years with you...I read the date 2010 somewhere and perhaps it is wrong. I was nowhere near 50 in 2003, and no, doctors were not recommending flu shots to me at that time.

My babies were born in 1999, 2002, and 2005 and throughout their entire childhoods I can only remember one time a pediatrician mentioned a flu shot. I consider that my kids are fully vaxxed and when we have to supply vaccination records for school etc., we are never told "But they haven't had flu shots!" So maybe I live in the backwater, I don't know, but here on C-D is about the only place I feel all this pressure to get one.
If you weren't 50, no the doctor wasn't recommending the flu shot to you in 2003. Note these words from my second link, the 2003 article: "Any other person older than 6 months who wishes to reduce the likelihood of getting the flu and does not have any contraindications."

Flu vaccine isn't required for school in any state. CT, NJ, NYC, Ohio and RI require it for day care.

As a long-time flu vaccine provider, I've heard many variations of this story:
"I never got flu shots because I never got the flu. Then I got it. I'll never skip the shot again." Of course, there are people on here who got the flu and thought it was nothing more than an "inconvenience for a few days", but those aren't the people I saw.

I'm kind of surprised the ped didn't recommend flu shots for your kids, particularly the youngest. By then (2005) all kids 6-23 months were recommended to get it and we gave tons.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:47 PM
 
18,177 posts, read 12,003,393 times
Reputation: 9190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
If you weren't 50, no the doctor wasn't recommending the flu shot to you in 2003. Note these words from my second link, the 2003 article: "Any other person older than 6 months who wishes to reduce the likelihood of getting the flu and does not have any contraindications."

Flu vaccine isn't required for school in any state. CT, NJ, NYC, Ohio and RI require it for day care.

As a long-time flu vaccine provider, I've heard many variations of this story:
"I never got flu shots because I never got the flu. Then I got it. I'll never skip the shot again." Of course, there are people on here who got the flu and thought it was nothing more than an "inconvenience for a few days", but those aren't the people I saw.

I'm kind of surprised the ped didn't recommend flu shots for your kids, particularly the youngest. By then (2005) all kids 6-23 months were recommended to get it and we gave tons.
My mother in law had flu shots every year and every year she go the .. flu.



Until late in the season flu shots only really help with flu from previous years. The new varieties require time to have vaccines developed.
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
26,581 posts, read 30,872,183 times
Reputation: 33086
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
My mother in law had flu shots every year and every year she go the .. flu.

Until late in the season flu shots only really help with flu from previous years. The new varieties require time to have vaccines developed.

If she got the "flu" every year, it is possible

She was infected before she took the vaccine and it did not have time to work, or
It was a strain not covered by the vaccine, or
It was a non-flu virus.

It would be unusual for the vaccine to fail for her every year. Did she have flu tests done?

Flu like symptoms for a day or two after the vaccine are not a flu infection. Those are due to the immune response to the vaccine.

Predicting which flu strains need to go into the vaccine is complicated, but vaccine for the 2019-2020 season is already in production. This year's vaccine was a good match to the circulating strains. Overall effectiveness will not be known until the season is over.
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